37 signals-web design in wrong...
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- woodyBatts0
ok Gabriel, we are totally in agreement, i thought i made this clear earlier in the thread.
word!
- gabriel_pc0
I think we need to realize that the standards everyone's so excited about is something that's completely behind the scenes. It should not influence design, thus it shouldn't make a site bland and boring. Is the DVD standard format more boring than VHS?
The ultimate goal of using standards would be to allow the end-user to have the designer's intended experience no matter how they view the site.
- woodyBatts0
Gabriel I believe we are actually agreeing here.
However please feel free to comment on what i wroite. I just feel that make a statement defining standards for anything (with exceptions dealing with safety etc etc), is a way to make everything bland and boring.
- gabriel_pc0
"The fact of the matter is that HTML is compliant with everything. I don't even know where this standards or compliancy thing comes into play, it's just something else to keep us chained in the cave...."
There are so many things wrong with that statement I can't even begin to comment on it. The problem with most of the standards evangelists is that they're developers, not designers. There's absolutely no reason why a site cannot be well designed and well coded.
This whole "make everything look like a blog" phase will quickly move on once more people realize that design AND code are important. Just my 2 cents.
- jevad0
totally agree...but I love 37 signals and in my eyes they can do no wrong....
- woodyBatts0
Nice site rick... very good example i feel
- woodyBatts0
Frankly, when it comes to compliancy and standards i feel it's really just another buzz for people to throw around...like the words
initialize...
or even in the conceptual world, "paradigm shift"...
people don't know what it means, but it sounds intelligent or cool. The fact of the matter is that HTML is compliant with everything. I don't even know where this standards or compliancy thing comes into play, it's just something else to keep us chained in the cave....
- rick_bass0
Ok, well http://www.adem.tv is my first attempt at such a thing.
I think it's fairly attractive, reasonably structured and validates. It also tries to use flash in a reasonably accessible way - loading the menu as quickly as possible, then getting the detail in. It even works without a stylesheet.
Even if it's impossible, it's worth trying.
- mrdobolina0
don't know where I am going with this, but 99.9% of users don't know what standards compliancy is nor do they care.
- JamesEngage0
coding is just a means to realsing the solution to the problem you've solved... isnt' it?
- JamesEngage0
I agree... I'm more than happy to build a 'universal' browser that I can feed any clients data into and for them too pay for it... but i don't think they'd be too pleased
- woodyBatts0
I agree with Mr. Engage, i feel that when most be talk about "about us" and "home" buttons they are really just regurgitating old trivial menusystems.
I have studied circle menus and UI design, notice you will never find a "home" button on photoshop...
I just feel that basic interaction is excused for complacentcy, and cheap style.
The coding should help the design, the design she compliment the coding. In the end who cares how it is made as long as it works.
- MR_T0
I when i write floored..I really meant 'flawed'
;-)
- MR_T0
I think the seperation of content and displau, whilst a nice concept is inherantly floored.
Cause ALL content needs/has some sort of inherant display characteristic about it. So what results is this generic 'copy' which has no context and no place..and thereby reduces it's meaning.
- JamesEngage0
Show some examples and I'll be impressed...
and it's not web design it web building half the time... coz everyone uses the same bloody structure...
I am hoping never to make another 'about us' link... or a 'home' link...
I know some people say you should do that so that all sites are the same and people can use the same interface... but is that 'standard' correct in the first place..
- MR_T0
Classic James.
I always wondered where the 'design' in webdesign comes from. Cause alot of the time I see sweet fuck all creativity and concepting.
- rick_bass0
Why can't you do both? Good looking, usable sites that are semantically strong and validate as strict XHTML/CSS are completely possible. I don't understand what the fuss is about. Why should validity preclude usability?
- JamesEngage0
I agree that there is a place for web standards... but some of the people that harp on about them... spend years getting anything concrete realised... and the stuff they usually have compliant is their web blog!
- Epictive0
I don't think he has trouble, he can just relate to the non web savy users out there.
- MR_T0
He makes a graet argument there, as I reckone everyone here knows so many people who bang on about validation.