Shame on IBM
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- meph504
4,700 IBM jobs for India, China
- slag_you_off0
whats the problem with that?
- tfs__mag0
The problem is that the job market in the states is bad enough without companies like IBM exploiting cheap labor by taking thousands of American jobs to India. Software engineers would have to live on what is probably the equivilant of minimum wage (about $5.25 an hour i think) to even compete with the rates they can pay an indian counterpart.
It's business, but the ethics of it are sketchy.
- sparker0
while it sucks for those losing their jobs, 5000 is small compared to the 300000+ they still employ.
it isn't like they are moving the entire operation over there.
this is a simple fact of business management. it has been happening since the industrial revolution.
- slag_you_off0
Its the free market market you created, Im afraid that that is the very nature of western capitalism, make you shit where its cheap... Im afraid the alternative is worse.
- tfs__mag0
well.. while most people realize that business is business it's still not cool during a time when unemployment is at an all-time high to do mass lay-offs of 4000 workers. I don't think anyone is debating that IBM has the "right" to do this, they're just saying that it's a crappy thing to do, especially right now.
- mitsu0
these guys are not making clothes or shoes, they are writing software that major corporation will depend on and with this level of confidence from IBM,
"IBM managers still haven't figured out whether all of the work the jobs represent can be performed just as well abroad."
there's no telling what they're in store for. memory leaks anyone?
- sparker0
maybe. but if there isn't enough money, there isn't enough money. it is better to cut 5K jobs here than to watch ibm fail completely.
it is a simple fact of management that people always overlook. cuts must be made when there isn't enough money to make payroll.
if you owned a design business and you had the choice between firing 3 designers and cutting 100K in overhead, or going bankrupt...what decision would you make?
- tfs__mag0
well it's like i've stated twice now. i'm sure everyone understands that business is business and the company is going to do what is profitable for them to stay afloat.
what sucks... is that they pick right now to do it. when it seems like half the country is already out of work.
- sparker0
actually, the unemployment rate is dropping and jobs are beginning to open up again.
anyway, i agree...it sucks for those who lose their jobs...sure. but, then again the article said it would be months before more than 500 of the jobs would be displaced...so, its not like they handing out suprise your fired cards.
:)
- mitsu0
something tells me IBM isn't exactly sending its employees home with a box of ramen noodles for christmas this year.
- ********0
I've only still got my job because they can't find someone who speaks German in the Philipines....
Yeah it's shit, but it's our own creation.....
- meph5040
This is not about IBM going bankrupt, its about cost cutting methods that modern American's have been using for years, the serious problem I have with it is that most of the jobs that are being cut are not simple jobs that require no training or education.
also this is the tip of the iceburg to see how this goes over the plan is to move 3.3 + million jobs in the next few years.
Its not that I am not happy for india and other nations that are getting the perks of this, but I am however pissed off that
a) The service I get is of lesser quality, for the same price. I would say that the greatest problem with be communcations, I often now when calling on Tech support for some of my companies API's I will get a tech center in India and have the hardest time expressing the source of the trouble as well as understanding the resolve they offer.
b) That why will anyone spend 5 years and upwards of $30k - $100k for an education to have your industry outsourced. I know many people that are leaving the industry due to the fact the cost of getting an accredited education cost so much only to find that the job market isn't there.
The Job market is bad enough in the states without or jobs being outsourced. 4k of jobs isn't a big of deal, but 3.3 milion on the other hand is a serious issue.
that is why I say shame on them, as America is still the number one consumer of their product. and the company predates WWII as an American Tech Company.
- ********0
- tfs__mag0
whoa... good find lou
- chach0
black & white biz vision is exactly the problem. these are the tech jobs that were supposed to stay in the states post-NAFTA. This is part of an ongoing global trend that will crush the US QOL in the long run.
www.nologo.com
- mitsu0
meph, i totally agree with you. but i don't see too much harm in this. again, software engineering doesn't always easily transfer from casual hobby to professional career. when corporations hire cheap labor to make clothes, shoes or even electronics, it's much different than putting together a team of people each with the knowledge of how to write efficient/stable/ professional / enterprise-level / etc. software.
basically, i forsee two possibillities:
1, this cheap labor will come at a great cost as the end product will be faulty and require professionls to come in and fix the disaster created by the cheap labor. or the money will not be spent to fix these problems leading to a tarnished reputation for IBM, thus leading it to its downfall.
2, they manage to hire some fairly competant people who are in fact experienced enough to write solid software. if this is the case, i support their endeavor (IBM's). this will be quite difficult as anyone who has taken the time to learn this trade will not be so easily bought at such cheap rates. this is certainly open for debate, but i'll have to see otherwise to be convinced.
- sparker0
"This is part of an ongoing global trend that will crush the US QOL in the long run.
www.nologo.com"and it's the illuminati's fault...aaaaaahhhhhhh.
- fate0
- tripleflux0
I just finished up a contract for a place that farms out web work to India. Holy crap they do bad work! I spent the first week fixing mistakes. It was awesome to see the adage "you get what you pay for" hit full force.
- fate0
"And Metronomy is thinking big. In the first phase of the campaign, 200,000 PCs, supplied by IBM, are up for grabs. "