Art or design?
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- Tyrone0
just don't kick my ass kpl
- eps0
Tyrone, I think you are who I need to talk to. Poeple who struck out on their own, whether it be art or design. Is it worth it? I know it's not easy, but do you feel better after doing it? Does it make you happier? Is it worth the sacrifices or is it just a different version of the same crap I'm dealing with right now? Something about what I'm doing is making me unhappy and I'm just trying to deal with it in a public forum. Also sounds a little off when it's on screen...
- kpl0
it's a hyperbole. to make a point. because crapping on art should not be a sacriledge...it's not God.
- kpl0
man, my english no good today.
- Tyrone0
eps i know exactly what yoour going through.....sorry if we got a bit off topic there at the begining. it's tough to say if its worth it at times. it depends what day you ask me that question. it's nice that ALL successes and ALL failures are your own. It's a different type of frustration. I've found that while I have infinitely more creative freedon than i used to, i spend alot more time running my business and less time designing. i have to go out and find the work. all in all this wwas the smart thing for me to do but i wouldnt recommend it to everyone. not sure if anny of this is helping.....
- Tyrone0
is that like the superbole????
- kpl0
yeah. but with more bullshit.
- Tyrone0
more bullshit than the superbowl???? hard to believe.....did you see last years half time show?
- eps0
Is should be more specific. I DO want to sell my stuff. That's why I make it, to share ideas and emotions with others. Communication pure and simple. That's also why I got into design but design isn't filling that need for me.
If art is crap is music crap? Is theatre crap? If so design is certianly crap. They are all the same, self expression and self indulgance. But is that wrong? I know assholes get paid a lot to make shitty records but sometimes those shitty records (or good ones) help people. Is that crap? That's a pretty narrow view and I hope you don't really mean that.
Why does everything have to be direct. Why can't some stuff make you think first? To explore a little. What's wrong with that?
- Tyrone0
don''t let kpl get you down eps ..... i think he's being extreme to make a point hence the superbole comment.
- timajick0
The grass is always greener.
You are in a privledged position at the moment, and you can use that position to express yourself. Start to push the boundries of your ad work, send a message out in your work. And if your clients don't like it, then at least you'll get fired trying.
- kpl0
yep. everything is crap. but remember, like I said this is a hyperbolous statement. in rhetoric, sometimes you need to whack a concept upside its head.
the point is that there is nothing noble about pursuing a life of art. If you grew up thinking you'll be the next mother theresa and ended up an AD. I'd understand why you'd be upset. But art is just art. Why should you be ashamed of "selling out" art? The concept of art is not worth that much...like you said it's all just communication in its basest level.
I was feeling what the Chapman Brothers were doing earlier this year when they defaced Goya's prints. I also felt it was ridiculous that the only reason the West becamed concerned about the Taliban before 9/11 was that they destroyed these giant pieces of religious art, especially considering all the other human rights atrocities they were committing. art as a concept is wildly overvalued, sometimes over that of the concept of human dignity. It's worth something, but it needs to be knocked down a peg or two in stature.
- Tyrone0
now that kpl has explained his point more eloquently i would have to say i agree with the man. i would say art isnt crap it's the perception of arts function and value that is crap.
- Tyrone0
but i think that is an all together different thread
- eps0
The thing is I think we look at art in different ways. You see paint and materials and I see humanity and expression. And I don't think there is anything more important than that. In my opinion all art should be much more important than it is. And I don;t mean to assholes in black turtlenecks they 've perverted what is great about art. Expression.
If we both agree art is communication how can that not be important? That's the most important thing we have. Art is so much more important than religion because it's based on the power of humans be creative. Although I guess religion is too...
And the art/taliban thing had nothing to do with art. The christians don't give a fuck about art. It was religion not art. Their religion was being attacked not their art. The fact that took the form of art is irrelevant.
- Tyrone0
art is NOT communication. art is the expression of emotion. big diffference. i dont give a fuck what monet was trying to say when he painted those water lilies. in fact i don't think he was trying say shit. but i do like the paintings. on the other hand, if i'm trying to sell a companies widgets, i need to communicate something in order for it to be good or efffective.
- eps0
I think art is communication AND emotion. You can't have good art without both. Monet may not have been trying to say something, but when Cerano made "Piss Christ" do you thinik he way trying to say something about religion, or just that urine makes a cool color in a c-print? Whether you like that particular peice or not it was more about communicating an idea than it was about anything else.
- Tyrone0
just because someone is TRYING to communicate something through art doesn't mean they have succeeded or that it was the correct forum in which to do it. as soon as someone tries to communicate an idea it is no longer art.
- eps0
"as soon as someone tries to communicate an idea it is no longer art"
By saying that you are discrediting 99% of all art made in the last 50 years. Good art is part concept and part execution. You can't have good art without both.
- kpl0
good points all around...
the difference is not that I don't see humanity in art. It's that I'm not viewing communication in such a positive light. communication can be done positively, ie. to inform, and negatively, ie. to deceive, defame. thus, art has the same capabilities. yeah, humans would not be human if it weren't for communication & art, but people wouldn't be so messed up either. Also, although communication is essential to life, breathing, food, shelter, etc., are as well, and none of which has the reverence that art has. So, the difference is you view expression in a far better light than I do.
The taliban thing...the point is that people were more concerned about the destruction of art over the destruction of people.