P2P
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- unknown0
we can ask ourselves as well one thing :
if the music cd's (that's one example out of many...) you buy in shops were les expensive : in a this new century where everything costs less and less.. maybe everyone will start to buy cd's again..
but when i see 20 euros albums.. well, i'm sorry, call me dumb but it's too much for me.. and never bought them before P2P and i'll certainly never buy them from now on..When music majors are making billions out of 10 cents cd's and at the same time complaining about illegal copies : then they should reconsider the offer and lower dramatically the prices..
at least it would be a nice gesture and shopw people the 'fair way'
making effort in one way is utopic : the effort have always has to be on both sides..
- Pixelgraft0
Re: music
In music, you are denying musicians of royalties. Where up and coming musicians are concerned, yeah, it get's them heard but they should decide what they give away for free. If they want to give every song the ever record away, fine. Unless you're Eminem, music is not a very lucrative business. it might make you well off for a bit.
And don't anyone tell me you wouldn't buy the music otherwise so they should be grateful that you downloaded it to listen to... WTF? If you want to listen to music you buy it. Music you don't want to listen to, you don't download. What if the other tracks on the album aren't as good? Remember those days you'd actually sit there and listen to an album? Not just yer own playlist?
The only defense for downloading music is that you can't be bothered to pay. If it was for the artists at all, you would respect their wishes where the distribution of their music was concerned. If they wanted to distribute if for free over the web, they can do that themselves.
and if people do download stuff, it's their choice. As long as they don't try and justify it to me morally. It's cos it's free.
Sorry, pet rant...
- unknown0
god.; sorry for the english, and the typing.. it's horrible..
time to go home soon...
- Pixelgraft0
Oh, but yes, I do agree CDs are overpriced too - record companies are to blame for some of it... but still, when it's there for free...
- Danski0
1. You try finding up and coming acts online. It's fucking hellish.
2. No, I can't be bothered to pay £16 for an album. Just like I can't be arsed to pay £50 for a sandwich.
- Pixelgraft0
Danski> hah... I wanna know what's in those sandwiches...
Up and coming acts, if they wanna get anywhere need to use P2P and the internet to distribute songs for free. But if they don't want to, that's their choice.
If I was an artist, I wouldn't want people giving away large prints of my artwork to anyone who wanted them if I was trying to sell prints myself...
- Danski0
Of course not large prints for free. How about a JPG?
Equivalents being > MP3 = JPG
CD (official) = Large print
CD (pirate) = photocopy
- Pixelgraft0
The quality difference is much less than that. More a difference in DPI than technology. An MP3 is not CD quality, but if you're not pedantic and it's encoded well, it will do the job just as well. IT's certainly better than cassette quality.
- unknown0
i understand pixel you won't want that.. most of us wouldn't want that..
but i think if you were an artist and you were doing millions with your music or prints, then your creations would be on a P2P network, free for everyone.. but at the same time how could u complain to do lets say 5 millions instead of 10 millions because of 'pirates' ?AND if you were unknown, absolutely poor and starting your art : don't worry , you won't be anywhere on those networks
they are the living proof of people success and earnings.. have YOU seen yourprints on a P2P network, or your local band ? or your local artist down the road with his paintings ? no..
so in a way it's a kind of 'balance'
- Anetalaya0
to buy photoshop right now, I would need to work 4 months, of courses, I wouldn't eat or buy anything I would have to walk to the work everyday... that means: I think software cost too much, and thats the first reasonwhy people in LatinAmerica but pirate copys, is not because they are cheap, they (we) just can't afford an original copy. same goes with CD, those are ridicously expensive.
I don't like P2P, but sometimes is the only solution if you want to work or enjoy some music. Moast of us today here are worred about how we are going to pay for food, and this people think wer are going to pay $600 for a program or $15 for a CD? and while they are complaining becuase they made 5 billions when the usually do 7billions?
- Danski0
Plus the music industry doctored it's figures, saying that piracy had caused a 25% drop in sales when it had in fact axed production by 20%, piracy being responsible only for the remaining 5%.
- dgtl_rchtct0
ok, Anetalaya, your comment pissed me off a bit. you are BUYING copies of pirated photoshop?!?! wtf? ok, you are a prick and so is the guy selling it. s/he is a fucker. see, to make profit off of SOMEONE else work is bullshit. that i DO NOT encourage. if you got it for freee, give it for free. if you got it for free with legal permission to distribute for free, do that.
see, i download and use and share...FOR FREE! nothing comes to me..
PG, your comment about taking away from the artist is the common retort from the recording industry and their pundit musicians. the problem with the anology is artists are not in control of royalites, the label is. the label sets the bill of sale. if the musician disagrees, the label decides to turn around and use reasons such as studio time, marketing, image, press gigs, prints, cd copying process, cash allotment upfront, etc. so in essence the muscian is just s whore to the pimp industry.
now, 4cY mentioned an excellent solution, PAYPAL. bands have albums online, you like, you buy whole thing. you dislike, you don't buy. share/profit would break even. sure their shit will be shared, but fuck it, they would also get paid too. grateful dead made millions off their albums AND ENCOURAGED people to come to their shows and RECORD FOR FREE AND DISTRUBTE THE MUSIC.
see, the paypal thing would work two fold:
1. artists would be more in control of their profits.
2. artists would have ability to attract a much large audience
3. the potention of artists to sell any and all tracks regardless of which one sucked or not
4. artist could find out which songs and sound user/fans like to hear and can build mold themselves to a niche for their particular audience.
5. designer and developers would see much more business by the fact that tons of artists will need to get into the technology of eBiz.
6. technology sector and artists could team up to form alliance that would topple copr megamachine.
7. independent artsts would no longer be a loose term for low budget bands but would mean the artist is in fact a true musician for the people...no for profit.
i could go on and on. but i am trying to download the english version of shaolin soccer. being on the internet is sucking my bandwidth. :)
- Anetalaya0
dgtl_rchtct: that's the way thing work in latinamerica, becuase after all, not to many people have fast internet conenction, so download a program can turn out to be very expensive too.
Most of the times I'm lucky enough download what I'm looking for. But not everyone has that luck and that opportunity.
Sorry to piss you off, I'm not saying that what people do here is right, but but how economy is going in latinamerica is much harder than in Europe or US.for example: from home to work (just 5 blocks) is see at least 6 people selling something on the street and at least 3 people asking for money EVERYDAY. So what I'm trying to point out is that ,yes, it's wrong to to download for free something you should be paying for or buy a pirate copy. but is true as well that prices in music and software are ridicously high and don't reflect what economy is today in most of this countries. And ok, you can live without music, but if you need a software to work to make a living, but what you win from that work will never be enough to buy the software, you end up in a circle, you can't but the software, you can't work, you can't work, you can't buy the software. And there is where P2P enters.
I would be very happy to buy all the original software, but I just can't and 90% of people living in LatinAmerica can't either.You know, the idea of musicians selling their music directly on internet, I believe is the best solution so far to end file sharing (wich is stealing, no matter how you put it, you are getting for free something you should be paying for)
- dgtl_rchtct0
Anetalaya, i understand your problems. i can not say it is ok or that it is bad.
the more i thought about what i wrote i wish i could take it back. i do apologize.
there is no greater or lesser evil here. either way any of us look at it, someone made these products to make a profit. so by us finding away to get them for free, in essence is theivery.
do i wish everything could be open source, yes. we may end up with a better interface for flash, a faster loading DW, or even a illustrator version that doesn't crash all the time (10.0 fucked me up).
so my friend, do what you got to do to survive. we all are trying to make no matter how you cut it.
props to those that can afford the products...props to those that can't afford the product but can afford to sit around til they save up for it. me, i'm poor. so i download.
:)
- Pixelgraft0
The problem with bands doing the Paypal thing is, yep, that's a GREAT way to start sticking two fingers up to the quite frankly dispicable record companies who care not for art but for a fast buck. However, if an artist charges a fiver for an album over paypal, someone will still stick it in their music directory and let others download it.
Also if people turn a blind eye to people sharing their stuff, then what are they doing selling it at top whack to others? How can you say, ok, if you or a close friend has a broadband connection and kazaa, you can have our stuff for free, if not, pay £12. That's bizarre. And if you don't charge, you can't be a full time artist so the output suffers, you can't afford to tour etc.
Musicians NEED to allow people to listen to them over the internet if they want any attention. If they don't they are fools. It's the new radio. I reckon every new artist should have three tracks available, at least one for download, and should work on extra content for their CDs to make them stand out from what you can download (which is why DVDs get more and more popular in the face of pirated films using stuff like divX;-) stuff)
The P2P, and just the general download culture thing won't go away and will never stop. It will profoundly effect the entertainment industry, like video did in all it's forms in the early 80s. There is no way round it.
And if you forget the legal side of it, it IS a bloody fantastic concept...
- dgtl_rchtct0
"if an artist charges a fiver for an album over paypal, someone will still stick it in their music directory and let others download it. "
i know, there is no way around it. the music will be shared, like i pointed out. see if my friend get the cd, he has the album cover (which may be very tight), a few bonuses (that i don't have) and other things.
see i download lots of music. others download lots of music, but somehow, artists still survive. they drive better cars than me (which btw, i don't have one) and they live in better houses, they date hotter woman/men.
i apoligze that if out of the millions that brad pitt and jennifer anniston make i happen to simply download their movies andn not contribute my 20-25 to them. not gonna happen.
albeit, many artists are still able to tour even with meager cult followings. so saying that money is needed is void. their profit wouldcome from the door feees and other stuff. even money from the place hosting the venue. its all about marketing and these fame fed music stars need to get it through their head that to make it on their own they have to reall get their own shit right. doesn't mean they have to do it, but find a friend or friend of a friend or a friend of a friends friend to help you manage accounting, pr, marketing, etc.
if small one stop shop or 3 owner LLC designer shops can do it and get paid so can these fart tard artists. its not hard.
at least make it seem like you work hard. these fuckers complaining about traveling and having to do show. ouch i can see why their head hurts...fuckers.
anyway, share away!
- Anetalaya0
dgtl_rchtct good to see, that form different perspective, we think the same, yuo don't need to take anything back, I'm not angry with you for speaking out your mind, as well as I hope you are not pissed because i said what I think....
As you said, o matter how you put it, is still wrong.
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I think the only way to totally end the file sharing is by ending internet, and that is not going to happen, becasue before p2p aps, therte was IRC, adn after p2p there is going to be something else.
What people in the industry need is to lowert downthe cost of the final product. Saying how bad is to use a p2p or taking away his life savings to a kid is not the way to go, because we all know that when someone says "is not good to do this" "or you can't do this" a regular human been will run to do it just to see why not or to prove they can do it.... they are fighting with human nature... =)