japanese posters
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- Supreme0
There are the "yankees" in baseball right? i don't see a "japees".
- monokrom0
"Yank" is the abbreviation of Yankee, just as Jap is an abbreviation of Japanese.
You're coming at it assbackwards, as though "Yankee" derived from "Yank".
As for native Japanese people using or not using the term "Jap", they have no reason to - Japanese and Japanese-culturally-influenced items are all around them, so there's not enough novelty in seeing such items that they'd prefix any reference to same with "Jap" ... just as I'm surrounded with Americana 24-7, so I don't have much cause to bandy around the term "Yank".
Several Japanese-American friends (born and raised in the USA) of mine regularly use the term "Jap" (i.e. "I've got some Jap VCD's if you wanna borrow them"). They don't hate themselves.
If we were all grizzled old WWII vets sitting around reminiscing about WWII and the years we spent in a Japanese POW camp, the cruel treatment at the hands of the camp guards, etc., then use of the term "Jap" would probably carry the significance that you're trying to attach to it here, but I'm betting that none of us are members of "The Greatest Generation".
- unformatted0
"jap" is not an abbreviation of japanese.
"jap" is not a short way of saying japan nor is it short for japanese.
i'm not japanese, but i have friends whose grandparents were in these camps. if you called them a "jap" or if they even heard the word "jap", they would probably end up in tears, bringing horrific memories back to them, which they try to not think about.
the "jap" word can't be compared to the same as using "scot" for ppl from scotland, because "scot" wasn't used as a racial slur (i don't know any history of scotland, so correct me if i'm wrong).
"jap"was a word the u.s. called the japanese during WWII.
"jap" is the same thing as if you were to say "nigger" to an African-American.
both should not be used.
as for a response to the Asian and oriental thing, most asians will probably say they hate being called oriental. it's not a race. i would rather be called chinese, not asian. oriental is used for people selling oriental rugs.
- CAJTBr0
okay firstly, saying japanese people don't use the word 'jap' because they're surrounded by japanese things: japanese people generally speak japanese, rather than english.
rationalising it that we aren't wwii vets so we have nothing to be offended about doesn't work. words have feelings associated with them.
for example skinny and boney sound worse than slender or thin, but they mean more or less the same thing.
whether or not it's an abbreviation makes no difference. abbreviations can take on sentiments of their own. the N word is the obvious example, it's either a shortening of the word nigerian, or has just grown from a different pronunciation of negro, but it obviously has totally different feelings associated with it than either of those words. the fact that slavery is long gone in the US (well...) doesn't stop it from offending people - and i'm sure you'll agree not just 'grizzled old' people.
the obvious argument against that is that racism still exists, and people continue to use the N word as a derogatory term. but that's also true for the word 'jap' - people still use it as a slur.
in the context of your group of friends, you might talk about 'jap' video games. sometimes it may just be an abbreviation, in some contexts it might even be used in a friendly way, as with the N word. but those contexts don't exist the world over, and when someone uses the word in a forum like this, you have to realise that there are other things in the context of the wider world that do cause some people to find the word offensive, whether they were in POW camps or not.
- Supreme0
monokrom....you said it..you're "japanese-american" friends. anyone who is not associated with america, but is of japanese decent will take being called a "jap" to the next level, which is violence.
me and my japanese friends would rather be called " faggot"
"asshole", "loser" (all of these are still unacceptable, but i am trying to make a point here.) than to be called a jap. it was term used in intern camps on some of our parents and it don't fly now. it never will..comparing it to a "yank" is a fucken joke.get your head outta your ass. or i will put it back in there again.
- monokrom0
CATJbr
(1.) Actually, the Japanese use a very large number of borrowed words from multiple languages (including English) in addition to what you would consider native Japanese. The pronunciations of the borrowed words differ more or less from the originals depending on a number of factors. This holds true for Korean as well (lots of borrowed words).
(2.) Your whole cause for complaint is that using "Jap" as an abbreviation for Japanese is that it recalls a now-distant era when the United States and Japan were at war. Guess what? That was *60 years ago*. It's part of history.
Someone else claimed that their Japanese-American friend's grandparents would be deeply upset if they were to hear the word "Jap" (since they lived through during that time). If they were indeed alive during the 1940's mature enough at the time to remember clearly the injustices that were done to them and their families, then they are very senior citizens now. Many seniors tend to be upset by a *lot* of things - including (but not limited to) loud car stereos, public discussions of same-sex marriage legislation, rap music, etc. If they become extremely distraught when they hear a particular word, even if it's used in a completely innocent context, then, by all means, censor yourself when you're in their presence. People of that age aren't long for this world anyway, so whatever you can do to accommodate them while they're alive builds good karma. But to try to force the word out of public usage is *insane*.
(3.) If people still use it as a slur, I haven't heard it used as such except in some very old films. The people who've used the term "Jap" in my presence (including several Japanese-Americans) use it in the same sense as the ntb poster : "Jap toys", "Jap posters", etc. If you're going to try to convince me that, once abused, a word can never see a respectable use again, then I'm afraid that you're out of luck. Because you are dead wrong. Why not try to force the word "queer" (once an epithet used abusively against homosexuals, now used proudly *by* many homosexuals with pride) out of the public lexicon instead?
Perspective : Once upon a time, "Negro" was a perfectly acceptable shorthand for "African-Americans" (see United Negro College Fund) embraced by African-Americans themselves. Before that, the term "Colored People" was used (see National Association for the Advancement of Colored People aka NAACP). At the moment, it's frowned upon to refer to non-Caucasians as "colored people", but "people of color" is still marginally acceptable. Approved designations for Americans of Spanish-speaking descent have proliferated beyond all reason, with many previously acceptable words replaced.
The debate over which words are/aren't "acceptable" is a form of mental masturbation. It's very unproductive.
You insist that "Jap" always has been, is now, and always will be used as a racial epithet. I know real, live breathing Japanese-Americans (in addition to plenty of non-Japanese-Americans) who use the word for what it is, a geographic abbreviation. Time marches on. I'm not going to lecture Japanese-Americans on the nonexistent anti-Japanese racist overtones of a word that they use casually on a daily basis.
For anyone to take issue with the use of the word "Jap" by a non-American born and raised in a foreign country and an altogether different culture is completely idiotic. Arguing that it's completely unacceptable for use within the United States is only marginally less so.
- monokrom0
Supreme your msgboard gangster act is ridiculous.
Please double your dosage and take several deep breaths.
- CAJTBr0
Hey monokrom, you seem to have me confused with someone else.
"Your whole cause for complaint is that using "Jap" as an abbreviation for Japanese is that it recalls a now-distant era"
I didn't say anything like this.
My only complaint was at the start of this thread, regarding you criticising some guy for saying something he never said.
"You insist that "Jap" always has been, is now, and always will be used as a racial epithet."
No I don't. I never said anything of the sort, nor anything remotely similar. In fact I said exactly the opposite of it 'always' being a racial epithet. I said in some contexts it's an abbreviation, in some it may even be a friendly term.
The only thing that i can think that you are disagreeing with here is my saying that in a forum like this, where you can't be sure of the reader's context, some people will find the term offensive.
Is that what you are trying to mean? That under no circumstance could someone reading this forum find the term offensive?
I agree that debate over whether a word is/is not acceptable is essentially pointless.
- monokrom0
CAJTBr
Paulrand's initial post was a thinly-disguised attempt at shit-stirring, but it's 40-odd posts behind us now.
If we can agree to disagree, then that's good enough for me.
Have a good Monday !