b/w photography
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- bacillo2
yeah, i know im the photographer, but i never got into technical aspects. so..
what is the difference between taking color photos and making them black and white by desaturating them in photoshop and taking the pics on black and white film? (if any)
- dequinix0
Interesting question. I always wondered this as well.
- unknown0
not sure about the film part but the beauty of b&w is the grades of paper you use to print on.
I guess if your scanning negs the reults would be pretty similar
- loaf0
much of it has to do with the film... B + W film has a much larger latitude (range of stops) than say chrome film(slide film).. color films are made up of mostly dyes and silver.. B+W is mainly silver.. grain structures are different..
- hmmaah0
the difference is in the details. both BW film itself, and the process of developing BW film, give you just that little bit of extra sharpness and quality. but then this only really matters when you develop your own film. if you have it developed and then take it into photoshop you won't notice any difference between colour film and BW. i think its a bit of a shame that photoshop has almost taken the place of doing good old fashioned developing. get yout hands dirty! its a beautiful thing.
- xrusos0
the spectrum and range of grays is much wider. color images that are printed in b&w tend to be flatter, and higher contrast.
the rule of thumb is that you shoot with b&w film if you want to print b&w. and color film for color prints.
using color film for b&w printing is a trick that can get you out of a bind, but should never be used all the time.
at least this is what it is for fine art photography. as for simple point and shoot photos with friends, then do whatever you want... you're not going to frame them in large format anyway.
- unknown0
what about if they are taken digitally?
- unknown0
well then you wouldn't have the issue of there being film involved would you
- unknown0
no, of course not
but is there a difference?i suppose i could just whip out my camera right no
- ********0
It's true about the range of the grey scale in b/w v. color film...I never thought about digital. Never bothered with it. I like all the chemicals and stuff. If there's a difference there's probably like a b/w and color setting on the camera, otherwise I bet it does the same thing photoshop does. I personally don't give a shit cause all my photos eventuall go through photoshop whether I decide they look better in black or white or not. It only really matters to the most dicerning eye. But if you want true b/w go with film. It's more fun anyway.
- CAJTBr0
though there are the technical issues (tonal range,contrast, etc) that people have mentioned, i think the main difference is not technical at all, it's just about what you're trying to do.
the main difference in using black and white (over desaturating) is that you're doing something by design at the time of taking the picture - you're producing a black and white photo. if you're using colour and then desaturating when you think it suits the photo, then it's really an afterthought more than by design. b&w will change the mood of a photo completely. take for example jana_reflection.jpg on your site (bacillo2). nothing in the photo is in focus (maybe the camera tried to focus on the wall because the subject was too near). the warm colours and the lack of focus make it look like a happy intimate moment. if you desaturate it, then you end up with a flat, out of focus photo of an unhappy looking girl (though the textures on her shirt are a lot more apparent, something i hadn't noticed that much in the colour image). the point is, if you'd had colour film in your camera, you would have composed a totally different image, taking the medium you were using into account.
your photos mostly look like snapshots taken with a lomo or something like that. the colours are one of the things that make this kind of photo look good, they're usually just things that capture a moment. b&w is something you have to think about and compose much more, because you're moving one further level of abstraction from reality. if you're wanting to take point-and-shoot, not-thought-through snapshot type stuff, then i think colour is usually better & will give you a better hit-rate of images that look good.
if you're just wanting to try out b&w, but don't want the expense and time of sending your stuff off to a lab, use ilford xp2 or kodak t-max cn, which are c41 processed meaning your regular high-street lab will do them at the same price as colour.
- bacillo20
"as for simple point and shoot photos with friends, then do whatever you want... you're not going to frame them in large format anyway. "
dont be so sure xrussos! ;)
check my work.
- bacillo20
very in depth response CAJTBr. though my work doesnt EXACTLY work that way. I'd like to think there was more to it than just a snapshot on a lomo. (and that i had planned focal points, ect)
- Bennn0
bacillo, how the hell can you work with a monitor place completly at your left like this ? :P
- bacillo20
angled. you are refering to my workspace thingie right? well i dont face the wall.
- J0
The answer is...
Colour film *evenly* captures the full spectrum, if it didn't, the colours wouldnt not look true to life (ie. your images might have a slight blue tint for example)
Black and white film *does NOT evenly capture* the full spectrum. If you imagine a graph with the full colour spectrum running across the bottom axis, and a line running across, plotting a black and white films' sensitivity to those colours, it would waver up and down, not hugely but notably.
Therefore, desaturating a coloured image will not look the same as an image catured on black and white film (setting your digital camera to mono will probably NOT emulate b&w film guys - sorry)
The best way to emulate b&w film, is to use b&w film.
The second best way, is to either manually bias the spectrum in photoshop before desaturating (tricky-ish), or just choose one of the R, G or B channels created by your digital camera and isolate it (only use that one!) - you may find the blue channel a little 'noisy' from digital pix.
I Hope thats helpful.
- bacillo20
like dis
- bacillo20
i like that one J, using only one channel. i should try that sometime.
- nope0
nice converge poster dood.
i'm pretty sure you heard about their riot in florida, right?
- bacillo20
no i didnt. tell tell tell.
- poopy0
Photoshop is seriously all you need to convert colour to b&w. If any step in the process is digital then you may as well use p/shop as you are gonna lose a massive amount of detail/quality anyway.
This is unless you have an excellent printer who has a very good knowlege of filters/tones etc.
Many people are saying how digital has changed the way they work. This is only true if you are not after the specific qualities that true photography has. If you know your stuff, you will know the difference.
Quite frankly, I have done all the colour - b&w and vive versa, sometimes to astonishing results, but nothing is ever as good as trad photog I can promise you.