Client stole our comps
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- BonSeff0
dude never said anything about a logo, it was a mailer tht they ripped.
ratt em out, get paid and bid them fairwell
- nmata0
i know the thread started out on another topic (the mailer) - the logo came up in a follow-up post. not sure what to do in that case - probably just let the stock photo company know and move on.
monkeyshine - don't have specific case examples, but just got finished helping a client through a situation where they asked us to do some work for them (a brochure) using a new logo. original logo creator gets bent over not getting the brochure work, threatens legal action, client and my company both spend some time (and money) consulting lawyers, and to make a long story short, tell original designer *of the logo* to get lost.
i'll see if i can get some actual case examples from our lawyer tomorrow.
- BonSeff0
thats awesome you have a lawyer nmata. i consult the graphics artist guild and have run into probs in the past and just dont have the time or the energy to go after people. so i suck it up and move on. Prolly most the time the client doesnt know they fucked up either. does your firm keep the lawyer on a retainer or something. must be nice for sure.
- nmata0
it's not like we have a full time lawyer on staff or anything, but it's the lawyer that we used to set up our initial business structure, and the way that we handle our federal and state taxes and all that other boring crap i don't understand.
biggest thing is that we now know the guy/s, and can call and ask questions and have documents drawn up when necessary. they actually function a lot like a designer - we ask them questions, they estimate the time, and bill us by the hour, whether they do research or write documents. not necessarily a fun place to spend your money, but i have to say that it's absolutely the best thing we've spent money on yet.
the biggest drag about being a small company is that everyone knows you have no money, and figures they can threaten you with legal action to get their way. talk to a lawyer if you can - even an hour just to find out where you stand on an issue is totally worth it - plus there's nothing more satisfying than some clown threatening legal action freaking out when you call his bluff with a letter from your lawyer.
sorry for the long post!
- monNom0
I don't know the legal aspects of logo rights, but i always assumed that the designer retains ownership of all artwork and sketches/comps, and the company pays for(by paying for the designer's work) an exclusive licence to use the final image in any way they deem fit.
They don't own the artwork or comps used to produce the final logo (as they would in a work for hire situation).
The point is moot really, as even if the company didn't have exclusive rights, how could you sell an already trademarked logo to another company?
that's like asking to be sued(for the pruchasing company).
- breeding0
i remember seeing something on tv with the lady who designed the nike swoosh logo, it was a freelance gig and she was paid less than $100 if i remember right... and shes shit out of luck now.
- yoLeroy0
It is standard practice to deliver a final product and withhold the source files - it's called "work for hire".
That said -
I never do logo work as 'work for hire'. What's the point?If you are designing an ID for the company - it's theirs. What use do you have with the rights for their logo?
- pr20
ok, to complicate things even more... how is it that actors and musicians in commercials get paid each time the commercial is aired while designer only once? In other words why is it that a logo would be a fifferent kind of propert then a sond used as bg?
- Redmond0
"a much better much more detailed contract that explains that any work is not OWNED by them, but that we grant them liscense to use it unless they wish to purchase the rights. "
That's what I do to.
PS Rat them out to the stock photo company. They probably have lawyers with a raging hard-on already for that case.
- matt240
it will probably be hard for you to get cash outta them so just send an email off to the stockphoto company the unliscensed photos is from and let them handle it hehe
- unknown0
I usually include in my graphic files, some extra code for self desctructing purposes.
or
I'd carry a laptop and show them whatever, no hand out of materials before full payment, then afterwards, it's theirs.
or
Investigate the background of the client before any work is done, this is another pitfall of freelancing.
:)
- gravityroom0
A few points...
1 - the Nike swoosh chick intern was later compensated
2 - my contract is not "self-constructed" I hired a lawyer to help me with it.
3 - the only time the rights to anything are held on to is if your contract states "work-for-hire". That means that the buyer buys the work and unlimited usage forever. Most designers don't have good business skills and that is why work-for-hire is the norm. You don't have to sign these types of deals, but sadly, some other designer is completely willing to low-ball your price and sign whatever the client wants...
- gren0
in addition:
contact the local better business bureau and give them the skinny...
they keep recordsm and will tell anyone :) check out potential clients ahead of time as well ;]
- surfito0
i just saw a post at a non design related message board were some one asked who did design work, and a guy, an owner of a music production company reffered to his designer saying how good he was.
he was the master of photoshop filters. kay power tools and bryce 3d extpert.
he is doing the job with no contracts, charging nothing im sure.
if that company owner runs into some one else, and asks them for work, and the designer is professional and brings his contract with his condition, and the right prices, do you think he will get the job?
nope, he wont, the client will look for another paintshop pro filter guru.
- surfito0
on my previous example, even tho that happens a lot, i was wrong when using that designer as an example, i just browsed through his site and is talented, i dont want to trash this guys work, its pretty good, a bit 99, but he works for the rave scene.
anyways, other than his site sucking and too much bryce work, i take back half of what i said and use an imaginary designer for that post, this guy has amazing drawings there, and photos.
still a filter freak tho.
- enobrev0
I don't know nmata, I don't quite follow, and I would like to know the exact situation you had consulted your lawyer with. After speaking with my laywer about a similar situation a couple months ago, I recieved an entirely different answer.
Design work CAN and SHOULD be considered similar to illustration (and hence like photography). Just because it's a part of a brand, doesn't mean you can't claim royalties on it.
That's like saying that since my photo or illustration is going to be used on busses all over the world, I no loger have rights to it. It does not matter what the use is, brand, or letterhead, you must explicitly sign over the rights to the creative work.
If it's in your contract that you still own the rights as the artist, then it will stand in court. It's just a matter of beating out lawyers over the english in the contract at that point.
- enobrev0
And more on topic, I would say to charge them for the stock photo, as well as for the comp work and a cunsultation fee for all those times they ent out comparing your proposals.
If they refuse to pay for the work, go to the credit bureaus for non-payment for service. as well as teh stock photo company
- unknown0
Ha.
this is an ancient topic!
As for that client . . .
We've barely heard a thing from them in months. Most likely they've either gone under, or are going now.
In the case of our company, we're a 3 person shop - so we can't afford to bother hunting down those morons.
I am still pretty sure that everything I had read previously states that unless specifically stated in the contract - the design work remains property of the designer, any exclusive copyrights must be bought out.