The Russia thread.

Out of context: Reply #522

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  • drgs0

    I have 80% sympathy with Ukraine and 20% sympathy with Russia.

    I just don't see a scenario where Russia does nothing while Ukraine applies for a NATO membership.
    Knowing their somewhat chauvinist culture you understand this would mean a complete humiliation.

    There is a sacred belt of either neutral or Russophile peripheral states which Russia needs to feel safe -- Baltics were lost in 2010s, fuck them, Sweden wants to remain neutral, for Finland Russia could be a good reason to join NATO, but an even better reason not to join, so they don't.
    Ukraine is the same as Finland, but Ukraine weights much more in this.

    What should have happened is:
    1) NATO specifically to declare that they are not interested in having Ukraine as a member
    2) Russia to understand that the neutrality of these states works both ways: stop fucking with Crimea/Donetsk/Lugansk

    Debate in groups of 3

    drgs 0Permalink
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    • The negations should end in exactly this: Russia out of Ukraine and NATO guarantees that they are not interested in Ukrainedrgs
    • Here's the mystery though, there was never any indication Ukraine was going to be granted NATO membership at all.yuekit
    • or Ucraina in NATO and Putin out for goodgrafician
    • At least not in the near future. NATO just didn't want to specifically rule it out because their policy is not to ban any individual country.yuekit
    • So what was the urgent threat that required going to war?yuekit
    • then again NATO is basically just an alliance against Putin at this point, no doubt regular Russians would nt care about what Ucraina doesgrafician
    • as Ucraina or any Eastern European state would ever fucking invade Russia, we don t care about The Russia anymore
      To each his own since the Cold war ended...      grafician
    • I don't know, Ukraine was very vocal about their intentions. But it all starts with Russia trying to get back their pre-USSR territoriesdrgs
    • https://qph.fs.quora…drgs
    • They'll will have to accept mistakes were made and move on with their life (they gave these territories themselves to Ukraine)drgs
    • I'm 90% sympathetic to Russia. NATO shoiuld keep the fuck away from Eastern Europe.Brabo_Brabo
    • 10% sympathy for the innocents in Ukraine.Brabo_Brabo
    • Russian would have no need to fear nato if it's leaders didn't try to line their own pockets through corrupt means.shapesalad
    • "90% sympathetic to Russia"
      of course you would.      pango
    • The tipping point for Russians to start a full blown war would be humiliation/frustrat... To appear as a strong country is more important than being one.drgs
    • Give them that illusion ("NATO will not accept Ukr. as member because we see now that Russia is taking it seriously") and they'll back offdrgs
    • @drgs maybe those Russian “republicans” are trying to save face, but I assure you regular Russian people are protesting already risking detention or even death!grafician
    • Upvoted for balanceKhurram
    • What was the purpose of NATO to continue to exist once the Cold War ended?Khurram
    • What were the consequences of the US pulling out of the Intermediate Nuclear Forces treaty while maintaining 150 B-61 nuclear bombs in Europe pointed at Russia?Khurram
    • Are you serious with these questions?grafician
    • Yes. 100%Khurram
    • Sarcasm is not a valid response.Khurram
    • why do countries have armies when they're not at war with anyone? just in case?pango
    • -1000000000% sympathy with russiababydick
    • It's a good time for both Finland and Sweden to join NATO, considering Putin is bat shit crazy.utopian
    • NATO goals are mainly defensive. As a response to Russian aggression historically. If I‘m wrong, let me have it :)grafician
    • You answered neither question.Khurram
    • Did Russia give up her nukes or point them anywhere else than NATO countries during that period?Nairn
    • I don't think you have an understanding of the historicity of the situation as it played out during the 1990s right up until Trump pulled out of the INF treaty.Khurram
    • But you may well ask speculative questions based on your utter ignorance of the matter.Khurram
    • ooh,'historicity' no less. No, I have a useful smattering of historical knowledge, much like you do, but without the arrogance.Nairn
    • It's difficult to have sympathy for Russia when they are essentially threatening to nuke the rest of the worldyuekit
    • I have sympathy for Russian. But not Putinpango
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