Out of context: Reply #352

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  • Morning_star3

    What puzzles and amuses me about this thread is the constant bleating-on of the left leaning QBN brethren who, for some inexplicable reason, lay ALL the ills of the modern world at the feet of one political and economic system.
    The amount of virtue signalling, posturing, oh-so-trendy horse shit that is posted here with claims that - even with the most charitable and simplistic interpretation - blame a system that can't possibly be responsible.
    The imperfections in the capitalist system, as well as the communist system are the humans - the fucking stupid, selfish, greedy, fucked-up, idiot, power hungry humans.
    Polarising the argument is retarded and self defeating because in 3 years, 5 years, 10 years there will be trend loving, virtue signalling, shallow humans arguing the exact opposite.
    The ridiculous thing is, is that capitalist/communist systems are not incompatible and a society that identifies the good things about each and nurtures them within its political and economic systems tend to blossom and bloom.

    • so says a commie rag ;)hans_glib
    • morning star of reason...renderedred
    • All marketing. It's easy to yell "socialist!", "communist!" than it is to explain that that same person that eats that up benefits from those programs.formed
    • I think when people attack capitalism they are just signaling their unhappiness with the way things work currently. I agree it's silly for them to pretend theyyuekit
    • all have the answers about what the best alternative is.yuekit
    • Craven capitalism benefits the few, hurts the majority. It's really that simple. Leftists aren't pining for a Neo-USSR.garbage
    • But the second bullshit is called on snowflake centrist argument, the conversation devolves into "virtue signaling", "posturing", or "SJW".garbage
    • Are you really confused as to the extent of capitalism's influence over the modern world? What else would you blame systemic problems on, if not the systemi_monk
    • that reaches into nearly every aspect of modern life, defines its values, directs its politics, and indoctrinates generations to prop it up for the benefit ofi_monk
    • a diminishing handful at the top?i_monk
    • A socialist country collapses (after decades of interference, embargoes, assassinations, etc) and it's somehow proof that socialism is poison to all it touches.i_monk
    • But I guess millions are plunged into generational debt because they're lazy, not because capitalism makes it profitable for someone to do that to them.i_monk
    • "It's not the system! Capitalism is perfect! It's the humans who are the problem!"i_monk
    • No; capitalism actively incentivizes the sort of sociopathic shit that's ruining the world in the name of short-lived profit, then tells its victims theiri_monk
    • poverty is a symptom of their own moral failings and character flaws.i_monk
    • Yeah of course the system matters, precisely because people are flawed. Most people will just mindlessly go along with whatever system they are born into.yuekit
    • However I agree with morning_star that a black and white capitalism vs. socialism divide is not necessarily the best way to think about it.yuekit
    • @yuekit And that's kind of an obvious point. Morning_star subscribes to the ideas of the IDW and the Sam Harris types. It's safe to say he's a dimbulb.garbage
    • @Garbage It would also be safe to say that your simplification of the 'Capitalist' problem is similarly dim. Props to you my dimbulb brother.Morning_star
    • @i_monk Life is not fair and neither should it be. Capitalism cannot be sociopathic, people are sociopathic. As i said, the problem is the humans.Morning_star
    • You're saying that our current incarnation of capitalism doesn't sow a greedy breeding ground for thieves that can buy their way out of punishment?garbage
    • Corporations have personhood and are more powerful than nations. The people take a back seat to the bottom line.garbage
    • If you can't understand that in such utterly simple terms, your bulb might be dimmer than mine.garbage
    • "Life is not fair and neither should it be" sums up the sociopathy capitalism thrives on.i_monk
    • communism ruined my country so I always find hilarious people from capitalist countries longing for communismernexbcn
    • @i_monk. Do you think that Malaria, Volcanos, Tsunami, Multiple Sclerosis, Motor Neurone Disease etc is caused by capitalism? Do you think that communism ....Morning_star
    • ...brings utopia? Even though not one single successful example can be given. The political and economic polarity you seem to yearn is myth.Morning_star
    • Nobody is begging for communism, so I'm not really sure what you're getting at.garbage
    • What do you want? What replaces a free market economy? Sure, more social responsibility from huge corporations is needed. And here in the UK we have ..Morning_star
    • ..the monopoly commission and the financial services authority and all manner of regulatory bodies BUT business rise nd fall on their bottom line. What are...Morning_star
    • suggesting is the optimum solution?Morning_star
    • a rebootprophetone
    • A redistribution of wealth? Globally? Regionally? Who decides who gets what?Morning_star
    • You already pointed out that there are many different possible combinations of socialism and free market. It's not really such a mystery, most people on theyuekit
    • left just want to shift the balance towards greater social welfare and more empowerment of workers.yuekit
    • Left-wingers are hardly the only ones saying the current system isn't working. Look at how quickly conservatives in the U.S. lined up behind Trump and hisyuekit
    • skepticism of free trade. Or what's going on in your own country with Brexit.yuekit
    • I think the disillusionment in the UK is more to do with the incompetence of all politicians regardless of their affiliation. And I agree with you that there ..Morning_star
    • room for criticism everywhere. My point is, is that this thread is reflective of the current on-trend political position that is essentially useless and..Morning_star
    • ...decisive. The only real workable solution is, as I’ve said, a mixture of both left and right ideals.Morning_star
    • i love the 'it's not the system, its the people' arguments from the right. like their belief in capitalism and distrust of others aren't one and the same.kingsteven
    • i'm yet to identify one socialist on this site. at least 4 dumb as fuck extreme right anti-communists that get triggered at the thought of any social reform.kingsteven
    • I indentify as a communist.deadsperm
    • I don't see what's wrong with pointing out the excesses and absurdities of the current system. That's all most of the posts in this thread are doing.yuekit
    • And who decided that this was a choice between only late-stage capitalism or communism?MrT
    • cold-war era anti-communist propaganda equates freedom to laissez-faire capitalism and connects the dots with psychological egoism.kingsteven
    • "Underlying most arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself." - friedman.kingsteven
    • ardent believers of capitalist doctrine are anti-communists... they see it as incompatible with their psyche.kingsteven
    • that seems to be where the polarisation stems. marx knew capitalism contained the seeds for its own destruction but marxists are socially motivated so prop upkingsteven
    • the system with social reform rather than let it fail.kingsteven
    • not even the Germans could implement communism, they had to build a wall to prevent people from escaping their socialist paradiseernexbcn
    • 3 things ernexbcn, 1. polarisation of capitalism and communism is daft (see OP and all above), 2 that's a bit xenophobic, 3. they fucking started it :Dkingsteven
    • Did I say something to imply I think volcanoes are caused by capitalism? What a stupid question, part of a transparently stupid straw man construct.i_monk
    • No you didn't. You did, however, imply that my observation regarding life's unfairness was a symptom of the lies and selfishness of a capitalist system. I was..Morning_star
    • ...merely giving examples of things that make life very unfair that can't possibly be linked to the capitalist system. Your argument is flawed.Morning_star
    • Your reading is flawed. A system that doesn't account for human nature or the 'life *should* be unfair" mentality is a flawed system. Capitalism goes beyondi_monk
    • that, however, to disproportionately reward exploitation and unfairness and enshrine them as core principles.i_monk
    • I wouldn't go as far as 'core principles' but i catch your drift. My question (which was asked very clumsily) is why should the economic and politicai system...Morning_star
    • fair? I agree it shouldn't be exploitative or oppressive etc by why fair?Morning_star
    • Because either it exists to serve us or we exist to serve it. Either it is governed by our democratic equality, or democracy and equality are governed by it.i_monk
    • Democracy has very little to do with it. The 'markets' along with regulatory bodies govern the businesses in a capitalists system. Consumers have a large part..Morning_star
    • play in the success or failure of a capitalist venture. We have the option to 'vote' with our money. The black or white scenario, we govern it, it ...Morning_star
    • ...governs us, is myth.Morning_star
    • How naïve.i_monk

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