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Out of context: Reply #70016

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  • sted1

    Ladies/Gents
    I need you brains/experience* here.
    *with the hope that I won't regret posting this :D

    We hired 3 people in 2018 Dec. for coding, all male and all 3 with the same nationality. Two of them are married one is a senior with kids, and the third one is a junior who just arrived in the country and he is a relative to the senior.

    They represented a certain mentality which almost no one else of the colleagues in production had to met in the past. Before them we actually paid attention to hire new workforce without any questionable behaviors, preconceptions, etc., we watched closely and discussed the new ones during their probation. I used to think that this was one of the reasons why we created a good environment before moving into the big leagues. Things changed, we had to grow and start to satisfy investment objectives, what included changes in our workforce numbers from 8 to 20+, and it was inevitable to change the recruitment process as well.

    Things started to get weird in February , when a GO girl had a tiny comment at a coffee talk about one of the guys watching her all the times, we laughed at it, and including me nobody actually cared.
    Few weeks later I heard that this guy and an other one of this group are sometimes waiting "accidentally" at the entrance of the office building for her, occasionally with coffee, and trying to be nice in general all the times.

    Meanwhile me and my business partner had to listen behind closed doors to some really unpleasant comments from these three about the girls at the office. They went down onto a level of wife material, asses slapped/fucked, tits size/banged, blowjobs and all the shit which I am not curious about.

    On a side note: I always feel like an outsider in these convos and in my mind want to beat the shit out of the person who is saying such things about the other one. But because of my past experiences I had to accept a conclusion for these situations that it's better to shut the fuck up, listen, and keep my opinion for myself. Otherwise if I don't, I will find myself to be truly an outsider and lose touch with my male colleagues. My business partner comes from a different corporate culture where people are accepting or turning a blind eye above these things.

    This situation escalated into a workplace harassment in almost two months, with lots of creepy deeds starting with moving workstations closer to the gitls, trying to get the their facebook(lulz) passwords, sending unpleasant pics/messages in the corporate/private communication channels to irl. stalking. On March 3. a proved groping happened in the office building elevator. Which I'm truly sorry about, because I do not wish anyone to be part of the situation that we saw on the cam. The saddest of all in this for me is that she didn't came forward about what happened for over two weeks. This was surprisingly accomplished by the senior guy, who until this seemed like a quite normal person. It has shown that we have a serious problem which needs to be addressed quickly.

    All three got fired on April 12. without notice, and threatened to file a racial discrimination lawsuit mostly based on a comment I made months earlier about joking about the relationship between their needs for caucasian women and their nationality. We had to move fast and subtracted the necessary conclusions, settled the situation (with money) on May 30., all papers signed, everyone can foff.

    This action appeared in the draft of our semiannual report.
    As a result right now I'm sitting over an email from our investors for almost two weeks unanswered. Which is an outline about the changes they recommend to apply until the end of the current fiscal year. This includes a section where they require decidedly to implement a workstation and video monitoring solution what should be partially available for some of the stakeholders.

    This is the consequence of solving the problem in our own way, by getting rid of them without having proper proof, based on disciplinary and performance issues that we cannot solve.

    Much of the harassment is difficult to prove without complete monitoring and it doesn't not justifies these changes because most of the actions happened outside of office. And I don't want people to feel like they're working in a cage in which all their activities are monitored by a 3rd party. I believe that these things are bad for creativity, efficiency and steering the workforce in a direction where it's more important to collect work hours and leave, than getting the actual work done or the importance of the people who are using the products we build. The street kid in me is already trying to find loopholes, but what pulls him back from the playground is the fact that the financial livelihood of 24 people isn't a game.

    There are three of us who have a say in these matters, and only one of my partners is part of the daily operations, knows all the details, nuances. They both are saying that these actions are inevitable and we should have done it earlier... Right now I only see these two desperate options because I'm missing the experience in these things to craft a better one:

    Execute the changes, keep my shares and leave place.

    Pick up the fight and say no, and enter the unknown zone.

    you are not drunk, the typos are real.

    sted 1Permalink
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    • install the cameras surreptitiously so they do not become a focus. few cameras, large areas. good for insurance too. I have one on my desk specifically at work.imbecile
    • focus on the good from the cameras, not negativity in the pastimbecile
    • ahha yeah like i would love spending the weekend binge-watching the last month tapes. already talked to a lawyer, you can't do that hidden cam stuff anymore :)sted
    • Ah get behind the right to work even if its discriminatory... Fired based on discrimination and yet hired... fight the laws that creates the problemsdeathboy
    • Cameras just displace unwanted activity. You need sexual harassment sensitivity courses. Mandatory.i_monk
    • not hidden, discreetly installed in plain site after hours without having drawing attention it. the cameras in our building are visible w/o being intrusiveimbecile
    • attention *to itimbecile
    • I would propose a clear discussion about the problem with your staff and make clear the harrassment policies.Salarrue
    • Creativity thrives in a secure place and with open communication. Cameras are simply a new element in the office.Salarrue
    • Good move firing them. Unacceptable behaviour.NBQ00
    • so there is no other solution than do these things and.leave the place?
      they want surveillance, "time manager" sw with screenshot generator and keylogger + cams      sted
    • I'd say talk to them if you haven't fire them yet.pango
    • There should definitely be a clear code of conduct for employees and mandatory training. And a culture that encourages coming forward.monospaced
    • Most importantly a good HR department and ethics group to oversee issues and GUARANTEE a no retaliation policy. That’s how it’s done.monospaced
    • What began it is people who did not speak up because they felt powerless. Honestly the HR Dept needs to be looked at and all initiatives come from there.robotron3k
    • Yes I'm sure you feel responsible but there needs to be a culture shift. Cameras are not cops, each person needs to feel part of the whole. Gluckrobotron3k
    • We had a similar table at the bank, a Dev team from a particular country. They were known to openly talk about women together. One day they just moved them awayrobotron3k
    • yupmonospaced
    • To me it sounds like these 3 guys could be from India (as there are lot of IT people & coders)? Where males harassing women is really a problem.NBQ00
    • do you have an HR person or department? what is your sexual harassment training like?dorf
    • Get something on the record from the women about how the move was the right move, then remember its your duty to not just listen at the door next time.cannonball1978
    • Sorry to hear Sted, these things happen to pop-up in every company "small and or large". You did the right thing by firing these pricks ASAP.utopian
    • BTW - Hayoth will be calling you a Commie and a Beta male for firing all of the men, I apologize for him in advance.utopian
    • My last office had cameras but really just at entrances and outside in parking lot. One day noticed my boss who was RARELY even in had installed a Nest cameraDarkCover
    • Was on a bookshelf and placed in a way the avg person wouldn't notice but being detail oriented I saw what I assume was right away Was #2 in office so didntDarkCover
    • worry about it much then one day sitting in his office in the chair I had always sat in was on my phone and for whatever reason that day dawned on me he couldDarkCover
    • probably see my phone and computer screen when I sat there. He was a creep anyhow but after that the placement to me was creepy. Could have been in upperDarkCover
    • ceiling corner like most office cams and would have come off like it did so I would think strongly about placement, and like others said inconspicuous the keyDarkCover
    • Thanks for these comments @mono actually highlighted something that in the first stage i'm going to offer revamping HR.
      already have some ideas how to do this      sted
    • and add some of the security features. looked around the office and we can place some of the cams into places where the surveillance it isn't invasive.sted
    • the only thing will be hard to refuse is the recording the employee activities.
      need to get around that...      sted
    • thanks for these comments, i'm really struggling to find the best possible solution.sted
    • I personally think cameras in the office are fine. Being professional at work shouldn't be that hard and your onboarding and coaching should make it clear...ben_
    • what the cameras are there for. If a complaint is filed, if something is stolen, etc.
      Cultural onboarding is key though, but good riddance to those dudes.      ben_
    • we installed the cams, then COVID came around the whole thing made no sense at all because this type of shit moved into the chatrooms and zoom calls.sted
    • because of other things, we decided to close shop last February, I sleep much more peacefully. oh and the 3 fucker they had to go back to their country.sted
    • I just received employment verification request from a US company. the asshole we paid has not been able to find a job since then or at least it looks that waysted
    • TLDR?pango
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