Politics
Out of context: Reply #8401
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- TheBlueOne0
"Protect the borders, deliver the mail and get out of my business..."
People who espouse this type of rhetoric, and I hear it all the time, are just libertarian utopians. Who are just as bad as socialist utopians, free market utopians and fascist utopians. They're spoon fed, coddled, TV bedazzled morons who have no idea what human life is like outside or organized political society. Locke was right in that society is indeed a social contract, one we agree to live with. In reality, humans are neither equal nor free. Are options would be bound by the whims of the natural world. Take a walk around a favela in Rio, or in Somalia, or anywhere else where government is close to non-existant and tell me you'd want to live there. Seriously. All this "Government bad!" stuff is just bullshit. Sure, "Bad government is bad" is absolutely true, but government in and of itself isn't bad.
It is only within the structure of a working government where one is and can be a free human being. Only in a society that upholds the idea, in principle, in law and with the coercive power of the government, can humans be equal before an agreed upon set of laws. In America (or any similarly organized society) I and Mr. Trump are equal in the sense that we can have access to the same forms of redress against each other regardless of wealth, stature or place in society. Both of our opinions should be the same when it comes to choosing government representation. Outside of the social framework, that "illusion of freedom" disappears. Mr. trump has more power than I do thanks to his wealth. Outside of the limiting power of the law he can pay to remove me if I bother him. I have no such recourse. Within lawful society, if he damages me, I can seek my fair retribution. Outside of that, the small, the individual have little or no appeal against the more powerful. The balance to power is organized opposition. It is only within governments, working democratic, representational governments, that individuals have appeal to the full extent of their personal and political freedoms. So all these people who think "Get rid of government, and I'll hold things down here with me and my rifle..." are utopians. Good luck with that. You can take a look at the plains of Afghanistan to see how that works out throughout history. You end up at the mercy of every warlord that blows through. And you can assert your "rights" all you want while they pike your head on a post.
I also say that within the context of democratic government the general historical trend has been, as societies grow in population size, as they become more interconnected, etc. the role of social justice issues become larger and more necessary to address for the long term viability and continuation of such a society. Politics is the means to address these issues. Those that dismiss "politics" don't seem to grasp that humans are political animals, social creatures by nature and nurture. Our choices of social organization are truly the key to our abilities and potentials moreso than any technology or tool we create. In fact, social organization models are in and of themselves tools. One merely has to look at history and see how the power of say the Greek phalanx or the Roman legion had on that societies domination of their territory. Their weapons were not different or in essence superior than their opponents, nor were they necessarily smarter. It was how they organized that made them successful within their contexts.
One I think must celebrate and protect individuals, but also protect at great cost the society that harbors and creates them as well. I say a society that seeks out through a common sharing of resources to best protect those most vulnerable among it are close to something the best humans can strive to be. All our religions point to this. All our ethical systems point to this. Yet there are always those among us who will seek to selfishly concentrate power. Again, it's something humans do. It's something herd animals do. I think our humanity should seek to saddle and bridle our beasts.
I think there is much to be discussed and figured out if we're to talk about what constitutes a rational and just healthcare system for our society. And their might be many ways to achieve that goal, but I think, if you look at what is being offered to us as the routes to discuss this now - framing it with "death panels" and "socialism" serves no good, and is in fact a truly evil and self serving framing of the debate by certain segments, coming from equal parts greed and self-serving ignorance.
How can one even debate this issues intelligently when we have to deal with lies and false arguments, amplified through corrupt media channels.
Our system is broken and it's so fucking sad. I've given up hope really. I think we're truly on the road to fascism now. Really I do. When I see elites manipulate the mob, instead of fearing the mob, then we are in for trying, dangerous times. Sorry this went on too long and I'm not even sure it's relevant to anything. I know..I can already see the "tldr" notes...
- good lord TBO...zenmasterfoo
- Not everything can be summed up on a bumper sticker, sorry.DrBombay
- Look, If I wasn't over 40 I'd be going back for my masters and getting out of this design shit...TheBlueOne
- ..just waiting my breathe here aren't I...TheBlueOne
- being over 40 is a lousy excuse, spoonmanPonyBoy
- get off your ass and get on it ;)PonyBoy
- lol@spoonmanTheBlueOne
- :)PonyBoy
- not bad but a society is only a group of individuals. and a group can have no rights...********
- government is created to prtect those rights, not violate them. the healthcare owuld is a big violation********
- How does providing healthcare in and of itself violate rights?TheBlueOne
- "Our choices of social organization are truly the key to our abilities and potentials moreso than any technology or tool we create." indeedBattleAxe
- tool we create." INDEEDBattleAxe