Mr Bean wins spanish elections
Out of context: Reply #17
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- turosatano0
On the Madrid Bombings:
It was 4 years ago today.
The Spanish government at the time blamed ETA for the bombs because EVERYONE blamed ETA for the bombs.
Up to that point ETA had killed 800 people all over Spain and was fond of doing it right before general elections.
To OBBTKN: don't make it sound like it was crazy to blame ETA.
Spain, politically, is completely irrelevant in the world. Spain supporting the war in Iraq barely made any news and you believe AL QAEDA would attack you for it?
And as for AL QAEDA being behind the bombings... let's see, there were no suicide bombers, all people arrested were Spanish or Moroccan. most of them small town drug dealers and/or police informers. All were arrested hours after the bombings, by the governement you say "was holding the truth from the masses". Bush doesn't even mention Madrid to sell his war on terror, not even at his most desperate.
Voters that day had on one hand, an administration in shock, arresting a bunch of petty thieves in connection with the bombings, and was telling the public "OK, it wasn't ETA but look here! this is pretty strange!", and on the other hand the opposition party and a good portion of the media saying this has happened because Spain invaded Irak. No wonder people were enraged.
Felipe Gonzalez, the former Spanish socialist PM for 11 years, who got Spain in the EU has been quoted by one of Spain's biggest newspapers as saying that the Madrid bombings was a job ETA orchestrated to look "Islamic". This is ignored by the media in Spain in general but in any event, you can't just come into new territory owned by ETA for 40 years and plant a bunch of bombs, I don't care if you're AL QUAEda, without ETA knowing about it.
Everything that has happened to Spain since then is a consequence of that traumatic event, and the traumatic change of government that followed. The whole political agenda is petty provincial affairs and no foreign policy or foreign presence whatsoever. The economy doesnt play a role. This is not about left or right, it's about something else.
The Basque separatists isn't even the point any more. The rest of Spain is so sick of them they would welcome a separate Basque country.
Catalonia, however, has been the key since the new governemt that emerged from the bombings. The new PM introduced amendments to the constitution that are very small, have been done very slowly but which are very important: The "Estatut". A new chapter in the constitution redefining Catalonia's state of autonomy. In essence A new constitution for the whole country without the Spanish people being asked about it. The consequence, already in written, is that in 10-15 years Spain, the oldest "modern" country in the world, will not exist as it is today.
- Are you pointing Madrid 9M to ETA again?? Did you talked with anybody not from spanish media for knowing this??OBBTKN
- Interesting, brings us back to
The Dude: "It's like Lenin said, look for the one who benefits..and..um..y...rafalski - where did you read that Spain is oldest "modern" country in the world? "Spain" was formed in 1460+ from the union of...********
- Castilla + Aragón. Turosatano you sound like you've been reading the newspapers.********
- I wish there was a single newspaper that talked about this, but apparently nobody cares. and if you want, substitute that for "one of the oldest countries in the world, thats not really the point.turosatano
- substitute that for "one of the oldest countries in the world, thats not really the point.turosatano
- no the point is that systematic inaccuracies end up in blunders, like saying the rest of Spain would welcome a...********
- ...separate country. More than half of ETA attacks have been on Basque soil, and that speaks for its complexity.********
- And the Basque issue is only one of the separatist movements running in the Peninsula. It seems different,********
- The rest of Spain is on the verge of giving up on the Basque, seeing that a bigger problem is coming from Catalonia,using a civilized method that doesnt involve killing or supporting killers.turosatano
- using a civilized method that doesnt involve killing or supporting killers.turosatano
- apart from that I urge you to find me the "systematic innacuracies" you are speaking of.turosatano
- because it's the strongest, but there is also the Galician separatist group (their depots are permanently dismantled)********
- and the Leonese separatists, which have much less political strength but are culturally active.********
- one of those inaccuracies is saying that the spanish presence in Iraq was irrelevant. why would it matter to Bush as********
- it did at the time? It's not just soldiers that matters in modern warfare.********
- Why has Obama said that if he wins he will demand + support from OTAN countries on foreign military issues?********
- Is it because they're irrelevant?********
- Corvo, alright, go word for word, I'm sure you can find a few more. I d love to stay but I have to go. I have had dozens of conversations where the other part says, wait the problem is so complex,turosatano
- I have had dozens of conversations where the other part says, wait the problem is so complex,turosatano
- you just can't be sure of anything. Guess what, the problem was complex 30 years ago. Now the conversation I wanna have is how on earth ETA has managed to amass enough power to bring an nations political agenda to its knees.turosatano
- wanna have is how on earth ETA has managed to amass enough power to bring an nations political agenda to its knees.turosatano
- Also, as to inner affairs in the Peninsula, it's really much more complicated than being just bored with killings...********
- Aah - how ETA managed that power? That's simple - they say they are different from the rest.********