Moses was High
Out of context: Reply #262
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- gramme0
In response to the blog Blue posted that discusses polytheism in Judaism:
First of all, I am not convinced that this guy is saying the Jews were polytheistic; in fact, he says that they had their one God, Yahweh (the same God the Father I've been discussing ad infinitum). Old Testament writers acknowledged that people worshipped other gods. They even acknowledged at times that some of those gods were actual spirits; but they are described as demons, not as gods, and they are always shown to be much lesser in power than Yahweh.
The blog writer (this Daniel guy) mentions several passages that he believes to bear up his points. I will address them one by one.
Genesis 31:30-34.
Laban had caught up to Jacob and demanded of him: "But why did you steal my gods?" Jacob replied "But if you find anyone who has your gods, he shall not live" although he didn't know that Rachel had taken the gods. [Here we have Jacob recognizing Laban's gods]—First of all, Daniel assumes that Laban is a Hebrew. This is not the case. Laban was a pagan, separate from the house of Isaac. He worshipped man-made idols of wood or stone, which Rachel stole form her father's house. This example held up by Daniel is thus a strawman and makes no reference to any Hebrew God but Yahweh.
Exodus 20:3
(The first commandment): You shall have no gods before me. [The gods of other nations are recognized, and the same in the next 2 quotes]—OK...so Moses acknowledged that other nations had other gods. Big deal. They are written, and the original Hebrew bears this up, as lowercase gods. Other gods are discussed throughout the Bible. This is no secret, and this is not swept under the rug in any church I've ever attended. Either those gods were demons, or they were entirely baseless, inanimate, powerless man-made creations of wood or stone or metal.
Exodus 31:14
Do not worship any other god, for the LORD (Yahweh), whose name is Jealous, is a jealous god.—First of all, the passage is actually in Exodus 34, but whatever. So, God (Yahweh) calls himself Jealous. OK, so he gives himself multiple names. He is obviously referring to himself. This is fine and in accord with his triune nature. My other point w/ this passage is the same as above: The mention of other gods is the same as elsewhere. He simply says the Hebrews should not worship any other gods. This is not polytheistic, it is only an acknowledgment that other people outside Judaism followed other gods.
Exodus 23:24-25
Do not bow down before their gods or worship them or follow their practices. You must demolish them and break their sacred stones to pieces. Worship the LORD (Yahweh) your god...—This guy is digging a grave with his own shovel. This verse again reinforces that the Hebrews were monotheistic and were commanded to not only be true to Yahweh alone, but to demolish the idols of other nations.
Deut. 10:17
For the LORD (Yahweh) your god is god of gods and lord of lords, the great God, mighty and awesome, [Yahweh is the chief god, like Zeus]—This verse means that all other gods are subservient to Yahweh. Whenever the Bible refers to other gods in lowercase, the meaning in the original Hebrew is dead gods, entities that are either demons (i.e. fallen angels, who were servants, not gods) or are entirely figments of men's imaginations. This verse, like others, reinforces the real God as supreme over the fake gods.
1 Sam 5:2-3
Then they carried the ark into Dagon's temple and set it beside Dagon. When the people of Ashdod rose early the next day, there was Dagon, fallen on his face on the ground before the ark of the LORD (Yahweh). [Here is one of a number of competitions between Yahweh and the other gods showing that Yahweh is greater, but in so doing recognizing the other gods.]—Dagon is no secret. Scholars have speculated that he was one of a number of entities that Canaanites worshipped, who was a real being – a demon, perhaps even an arch-demon. There is no mention anywhere in the Bible that this Dagon or any other god ever did anything for anyone who worshipped him. He commanded them to sacrifice their children in the temple fires. That was his contribution to the lives of the Canaanites. However, his idols were made of stone, by men. So, the Hebrews carried the holy ark into Dagon's temple. The stole representation of Dagon fell flat on its face. This is in my opinion a funny and slapstick display of God's sovereignty over all other gods.
The name Yahweh is not mistranslated into THE LORD. The name was so sacred, so holy, that the Hebrews did not even speak it out loud – they only wrote it, and even then our modern pronunciation is speculative since written Hebrew lacks vowels (they wrote the name as YHWH). In speech, they called Yahweh The Lord, Elohim, Adonai (true, this is a generic term meaning 'Lord', but when they were referring to Yahweh it is always unmistakable).
Our blogger Daniel says that people saw God, in spite of the apostle John's words "No one has ever seen God, but God the One and Only, who is at the Father's side, has made him known." (by the way, the 'One and Only' here is referring to Jesus, which is obvious if you read the rest of the chapter). Daniel uses a passage from the book of Daniel as his source:
Daniel 7:9
"...the Ancient of Days took his seat. His clothing was as white as snow; the hair of his head was white like wool...",—The ancient of Days is Jesus, this is made plain in the book of revelation. Like Yahweh, Jesus has many names. Think of a powerful and illustrious king, who has many titles that describe his exploits. Jesus, the Ancient of Days, has appeared in the flesh – unlike Yahweh the Father – and Daniel got a foretaste of this in his visions. Our blogger uses Isaiah, Amos and Job as further evidence – but these passages are also referring to Jesus Christ, they are actually just a few of the many Old Testament foreshadowings.
In Genesis and elsewhere, God is referred to as Elohim, a plural name. This plural name is a reference to the Trinity. He also says elsewhere "Let us make man in OUR image". This means that the Trinity was not a New Testament concoction, but that it stretched into eternity – it's even mentioned in the very first passages in the Bible. This is not evidence that there is more than one God, because they are described as being in perfect concert – thus, the three-in-one nature of God.
In closing, there is no forced harmony with church dogmas and Greek polytheism. Greek gods were very human, they displayed flaws, they could be corrupted and killed. God, Yahweh, Jesus, the Holy Spirit, Elohim, The Holy Trinity...whatever name you choose, this God is different from all others. He is sovereign, immutable, indestructable and perfect.
These so-called passages of support for supposed Jewish polytheism are in reality confirmation of the One True God.
- Stop already.********
- what would jesus do in this case?sea_sea
- Stop already.