Open Carry in America
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- prophetone0
I think you are all avoiding the elephant in the room. We need Magneto.
- monospaced0
Here's an article from a pro-gun guy that actually makes sense.
"So please, open carriers, stop “defending my rights”. Just stop. You’re not helping. You’re not creating friends. You’re not “proving how important it is to exercise our rights.” You also have a right to wander the streets dressed in drag; do you exercise that right? And you’re not “getting people used to open carry.” For years, the Westboro Baptist Church has angered people by protesting at funerals. America hasn’t gotten used to it. We grudgingly tolerate it because it’s legal, but pretty much everybody hopes the WBC picks the wrong funeral and gets beaten senseless. America will never say, “The Westboro Baptist Church? What a great group of guys!” And you open carriers will never NOT provoke a reaction by carrying an AR-15 inside Chipotle."
- doesnt understand rights. just comments on how other people perceive the situation. hasnt been to nyc where peopleyurimon
- use their right to dress in drag. but cant carry gun in nyc though.yurimon
- he definitely understands the rights, he's just pointing out that these people aren't helping by exercising them like thismonospaced
- Oh you mean helping the other people hate who dont understand rights?yurimon
- Hey yurimon, go troll 4chan for a while so the adults can talk.i_monk
- look yuri, read the article and his arguments, you won't have to ask so many stupid questionsmonospaced
- your bias = truth = adult hood. icyurimon
- nb0
"I am only going to post this once and be done with this thread."
- yurimon, about ten posts ago.
- DRIFTMONKEY0
"I am only going to post this once and be done with this thread."
- ohhhhhsnap0
saw a sign today while waiting in line:
YOU CANNOT
BRING FIREARMS INTO
ANY POST OFFICEgood to know there's a safe place.
- http://www.kmbc.com/…yurimon
- you're not supposed to ... doesn't mean that ppl don't. noticeably there aren't any security @ post offices.ohhhhhsnap
- robotron3k0
this guy was acquitted for firing on police officers
- benfal99-1
The American Paranoia™
- sofas0
I think I get the yes/no right to bare arms debate, but for a long time I didn't understand the open vs. concealed carry debate that seemed like splitting hairs on a side issue.
Lately I think it's mostly a propaganda thing. Of course there are tactical considerations, but the main issue is political, i.e. seeing an armed civilian raises questions about power structure, trust etc.
Forcing people to hide their weapon keeps the population calm and gives a feeling of homogeneity. People get used to and feel safe with only the police being armed."out of sight, out of mind"
- section_0141
^^^ That's it really. You don't wanna see Joe Schmoe walking around with a 9mm on his hip. Lots of people carry guns, we know this.
Plus, it's probably safer for said individual.
- renderedred1
In Israel, for example, "open carry" is normal. Not only for soldiers on leave (in my days in the army in Europe we didn't ever go outside the military compound with weapons) but also for citizens (only Jewish of course!). It was very intimidating and weird for me in the beginning, now I don't even pay attention to it. It's part of the "landscape" for me now, just like any other clothing item.
I hate guns and I never went anywhere carrying one openly or not because I feel guns give a false sense of security anyway. I'll even go further by saying idiots with guns become a huge problem sooner or later...
- set-2
Everyone knows that Guns aren't the problem, Americans are.
Switzerland proves this over and over and over. Stop focusing on guns and focus on yourselves. You shits.
- this country is vast and stupid, vast... and... stupid... ...id ...id ...idGreedo
- Switzerland is a baby country with silent racism that keeps non-similiarly minded individuals out, thus reducing violence.robotron3k
- Ban Americansyuekit
- Whilst there are a high number of guns in Switzerland, they have no bullets at home, and all the same they're in the top 30 countries for gun deaths per capitadetritus
- I'm calling for a complete shut down on Americans entering any other country until we know what's going on folks.monoboy
- ...from a list which includes 15 South American countries, so I'm ..er.. not sure how great an example they are here.detritus
- robo making shit up again - do you realise you talk shit, or are you oblivious? Switzerland is in top 10 countries immigration per capita.detritus
- Switzerland is so small compared to the US http://www.travelers…OP31
- robo isn't entirely wrong ... the history of violence and racism in the USA is unique, and comparing directly to Switzerland isn't fair to either nationmonospaced
- size is irrelevant...set
- @ OP31set
- I'm with set on this one.kona
- Detritus... 3.60 vs 0.21 per 100,000 is incomparable, regardless of whether they're in the top 30 or notset
- ... and it's AS easy for people in Switzerland to have bullets, if they choose, but I guess they don't... which is kind of the point.set
- So I don't mean to be rude but I don't really understand any of your argumentset
- I bet that even you are aware that the average Swiss person is most likely a better, calmer, healthier, more well rounded individual than the average American.set
- 'even you' is a shitty way to word it, I didn't mean it like that.set
- I'm not sure I've any idea what 'an average anyone' is like, but then I've never been very fond of black and white polarised absolutes.detritus
- the high number in Switzerland is due to the right to keep your army gun at home. So basically it's trained soldiers in possession of guns at home.uan
- and everyone has to go to military training (or civil service as an alternative).
last time Switzerland voted for a law to hand the weapons back to the army...uan - ...the result was: population in cities voted to get rid of the weapons, population of countrysides wanted to keep the weapons.uan
- so now you can decide for yourself what's best for you, keeping your weapon at the base or at home.uan
- Ah, so cosmopolitanised urbanites vs. redneck yokels? Huh. And there's me thinking that was solely an American division...detritus
- You're being a stubborn muppet if you don't think you can characterise a country by the average citizenset
- But it's good way to still disagree with me even though it's a load of rubbish . :)set
- I am one to generalise, but I'd be a stupid muppet, to borrow from your vernacular, if I put much stock in any national stereotype, esp. for a country of 300M.detritus
- I mean, it only takes one glance at the dismembering internal national dialogue that happens in the States after every shooting to show such it up.detritus
- Personally, I see your virtuous Swiss, or some Suffolk or Bavarian farmer to be on about the same level as some gun toting midewestern American hick.detritus
- Just my to Franken, since I was one of these armygun possessing swiss: Most of our gundeaths are suicides.Longcopylover
- Everything else uan already said.Longcopylover
- GM2787
As someone who actually conceal carries here is my two cents (I know I'm probably going to get chewed out but so be it)
Mental healthcare in this country is appalling and way too many ppl who are in need of help have access to firearms. To me, that's the real issue. But, In the interest of the topic I'll keep it about open carry.
Firstly, I agree 100% with the quote Monospaced posted above. Fucktards exercising their rights to march down a street shouldering an AR-15 are only hurting those that support the Second Amendment. They scare the hell out of people who in turn start thinking "We need tougher laws to stop ppl from legally carrying."
In order for me to obtain my LTC (license to carry) I had to submit to an extensive background check and attend classes both to thoroughly understand the laws (when I can and cannot justify the use of deadly force) as well as demonstrate full competency using a firearm. There are SO MANY rules of what you can and cannot do, where you can go with a weapon, where you cannot. It's far from getting an LTC then going around like a damned cowboy everywhere.
Before getting into open carrying I'll state the obvious. The point of LEGALLY concealing a weapon is that nobody knows you have it on you. The key word is CONCEAL. I'm sure plenty of ppl who open carry believe that by doing so, they're deterring crime but I honestly disagree.
Let me propose two scenarios to you based on a single situation: You and a loved one are in a shop and someone enters wishing to harm/rob/etc everyone inside.
Situation 1) You are conceal carrying a firearm. The criminals walk in scope out the place, and sit everyone down, etc etc. and proceed to rob the shop. Now because you are concealing your weapon, they don't know it's on you. You can decide whether or not the money in the register and whatever you have in your wallet is worth getting involved over and drawing a weapon. You can decide if possibly getting shot or having a loved one killed is worth that.
Situation 2) This time you're open carrying. The criminals come into the shop as before but this time they scope the place out and see you carrying. Now, they're still determined to rob the place. But this time, you're a threat. Now you do not have a choice to get involved. Like it or not you're in it.
I will admit I'm former military, I'm not all "'murica fuck yeah 2a muthafuka" I'm not a gun nut, far from it. I'm not all fuck yeah lets all get armed to the teeth with military grade weapons. I will state that I believe law abiding citizens should be allowed to protect themselves, their families and their property. I just feel you should do it in a way that doesn't make everyone around you nervous or make yourself, your loved ones or innocent bystanders a target.
- Sounds pretty reasonable to meset
- Don't the rules change from state to state? I think the US gov needs to take a big swing at this and ride out the anti-legislative backlash.monoboy
- Makes sense, just saying that besides the statistical tactical questions of pro/against open/concealed, I think there's a political one that might be biggersofas
- Yes the rules vary from state to statesofas
- Yes, the rules are different from state to state. Education, and attending classes to fully understand the laws of your state (if you wish to carry) is key.GM278
- Psychometric testing, credit scoring, mandatory training. Raise the bar to ownership. Clamp down on those that don't qualify.monoboy
- ^I agree with making it harder for ppl who don't qualify. I'm just trying to keep it on the topic of open carry or I'd have written a giant novel.GM278
- I'd agree that open carry sends the wrong message. Makes you a target.monoboy
- Situation 2) You die first. You don't know they're going to rob the place. You aren't aware of them. You die first. They then take the winning $2 lotto ticketkona
- from your wallet you've been meaning to cash but just haven't found the time.kona
- I'm outkona
- ^That's my point. Not only do you not have a choice to get involved but you're a perceived threat, become a target and they take you out.GM278
- Not even going to get into proper situational awareness or response time to a threat.GM278
- The guns culture is so far from us in Canada, I just can't understand it. So I cant judge or comment what you just said I guess.Bennn
- But a gun at home is a potential risk. You never know if you're not going to have bad depression in a few years, gun & depression is a bad mix. Just 1 example.Bennn
- all too real, this past weekend just lost an ex coworker who struggled with depression...gun was involved..futurefood
- Its not part of my culture (though I wish UK would have had a successful uprising). I get the 'murica history, though I'm disillusioned with what it is nowmugwart
- but I get your logic. Now how do we go about electing you?mugwart
- Benn, again I want to emphasis that my post is a response to "open carry."As I said, mental healthcare is a whole different issue to address.GM278
- Totally, I was talking about guns at large. I was slightly off topic.Bennn
- futurefood, my condolences. That is awful.GM278
- Mental healthcare still sets a third party precedent for "healthy" at what line of social incompetently to the competent cut them off? So subjective.imbecile
- *incompetencyimbecile
- sofas0
@renderedred
I've heard of this aspect of culture shock from others. I can't think of a western(?) country where ppl casually walk around with sub machines guns.
BTW it's mostly jews, but some house nig@@s get a permit too.
I think it gives a false sense of security, but can still provide somewhat of a safety net. Double ended sword, depends on the circumstances..
I heard of a civilian firing range instructor in Israel who told his students to only draw their pistol in a terrorist attack if it's absolutely necessary 'cause ppl will be panicking and everyone will be shooting everyone.- house ni@@s always get guns :) what i do know is that crazy mass shootings do not occur here. meaning, probably that the education about guns is good.renderedred
- the only one that comes to mind is the Cave of the Patriarchs massacre. It's surprising there aren't moresofas
- yup! forgot about that one. sorry. that one was really bad...renderedred
- yuekit1
I'm OK with guns, open carry and all that but I wish Americans would drop the pretense they need guns to "stay free" or protect themselves from the government.
Plenty of countries with strict gun control that are perfectly free...and the U.S. in reality isn't that free in many ways.
Americans on the left and right constantly complain about how oppressed they are, the guns didn't prevent any of it apparently.
Just admit you have so many guns because you like guns...and that there's a price to be paid for that. You're never realistically going to be able to prevent mentally ill people from getting guns when there are more firearms in the country than there are people.
- I'd also lump ppl who feel the need for high capacity magazines or carry multiple magazine pouches in there.GM278
- In a defensive, life or death situation you're not going to have time to reload and lets be honest, if you can't protect yourself with the rounds in your gunGM278
- You should probably work on your aim.GM278
- it's ok for you you're ex military. for most people it's a big step from carrying a gun to actually pointing it at someone and shooting them.hans_glib
- at least i hope it is... which is why i keep a wide berth from any idiot i see carrying a gun when i'm in the ushans_glib
- Military or not, it's a massive responsibility to carry let alone potentially take a life. PPL who wish to carry need to be extensively trained and educated.GM278
- look at venezuela. the gov't stripped the civilians from owning guns. now they can't get rid of the gov't. only the bad side has the guns.hotroddy
- the gov't wants you powerless and dependant on them. that how big gov't thrives.hotroddy
- I dunno man. That's an argument raised by ppl who want high capacity magazines. I just feel they should spend a bit more time getting involved...GM278
- ...in politics or even educated to make more informed decisions on whom they vote for and a little less time worrying about how many rounds they can shoot.GM278
- Perhaps they'd have a bit less to fear.GM278
- I'm not saying guns wouldn't be useful in some extreme situations. Just that they aren't necessary for a free society. For every Venezuela you have Japan,yuekit
- Taiwan, South Korea, Netherlands, Germany, etc. If you reached the point where armed revolt is your only option a lot of things probably went wrong first.yuekit
- Also in the U.S. at least I feel like if there was an armed uprising it's almost inevitable the government would win. The only difference with a heavily armedyuekit
- populace would be to greatly increase number of casualties.yuekit
- it can happen easily in US. all you need is a military coup. I'm sure liberals would welcome it.hotroddy
- Good point, guns or no guns, America is about as free as it ever will be. Which is to say, not that free.ben_
- stoplying0
Guns do more bad than good. Imaginations run wild about defending ones house against a government invasion. Or shooting an intruder breaking into your house.
But the reality that I've seen is far too many accidents where a kid finds his Dad's loaded gun and kills himself. Or an irrational argument elevates to a senseless shooting. Or a gun finds its way into the wrong hands and ends up in a library, or mall or high school ruining countess lives.
I will never own a gun and I will never introduce my sons to them.
- GM2782
@stoplying While I TOTALLY respect your position, actually agree on some points and IN NO WAY wish to debate pro or anti guns. I'd like to respond to some of the things you've mentioned.
PPL who own guns because they are fearful of govt are such a small percentage of legal gun owners. Also, there are very strict penalties for people with children who fail to properly secure their firearms. I'm not saying it doesn't happen. Unfortunately, it does. It's beyond horrible. As for senseless arguments leading to a gun being drawn. I think that if you choose to carry (again I emphasize LEGALLY carrying) you need to be someone who is calm and can't be goaded into those kinds of situations. Like I said, there are dozens of laws outlining when use of force is and is not allowed or justifiable.
Texas ,for example, is NOT a shoot to kill state. You cannot just fire your gun until someone is dead. The goal is to stop a threat not kill, and should you do so, you can find yourself on trial for murder even in a self defense situation.
Furthermore, ppl who have obtained an LTC in Texas (I speak about TX because I live here) are held to a much higher standard to earn that right. For example. The legal limit for drunk driving or public intoxication is .08% blood alcohol concentration. HOWEVER, if you have an LTC that goes out the window. Whether you have .08 or .01 or whatever if you have a license to carry and an officer suspects you of intoxication you are. Period. The only difference is whether or not you have your weapon on you. You're still going to get a misdemeanor but if you don't have the weapon on you you'll be punished less.
However home invasions do happen. Consider the following link:
http://www.fox5atlanta.com/news/…
The homeowners involved are the parents of Michael Cargill, a Texas LTC instructor and 2A law advocate. The criminal involved had multiple felonies. I don't believe that's an irrational fear at all nor do I believe this was an isolated incident.
More times than not, those situations you mentioned involve ppl who either 1) do not fully understand the laws or 2) have obtained a weapon illegally.
Again, I honestly commend you for your stance especially as a parent to determine what is or is not best for you and your family.
- < I equally respect your stance. I'm not trying to change any minds. I know a few very responsible gun owners, Scout Masters, ex-Green Beret, and I get it.stoplying
- Bennn4
The American culture is swarmed by guns, violence and paranoïa since decades. No wonder why its such a big deal. The beast is feeding itself.
- utopian1
- http://i.imgur.com/n…_niko
- fits right in the pocketmoldero
- Not practical in any scenario, even in a self defense you're going to get prosecuted for murder, waste of ammo at the range....but the kids think it's cool. :/GM278
