Ban the Burqa?
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- sqloud0
Some things you don't seem to know/understand. A lot of burka/nikab wearing women are actually "born again muslim". As stated by a lot of muslim association here in France. The majority of muslim women wear veil on their hair. No problem with that. According to the old testament, women should wear veil too. So french basic rascists should just shut their mouth.
I don't think it has nothing to do with the fact with France colonnial history. When you go in Maghreb, women don't wear burka nor nikab.
I'm not saying that all of the french women who do, do it by choice and religious revendication/pride, obviously not. But that's a distinctive sign of stupid "i wanna overdo my new religion", born again muslim french girls often do.
- raf0
I am an immigrant and I think the country I came to should be able to dictate the rules.
My approach is: I am a guest, the host has the right to set whatever house rules they want.
Well, for my convenience, I will try to disobey any rules I don't like (so will anyone else and we'll rant about "injustice" and "racism"), but this doesn't take away their right to set them.France's problem is that they did not set those rules when they let the influx of immigrants in. This is many countries problem. Naive political correctness of current times doesn't help.
When I hear ie. discussions whether or not an English exam in order to get an British citizenship is too harsh a requirement I facepalm instantly. How can you not require naturalized British to fucking speak English?
In Ireland, it is worse: they only require 5 years of residence, signature of 2 Irish (ie. a neighbour and a coworker) and a fee. No English language knowledge needed.
If I were Irish government, I would require people like me to learn fluent English and Irish (Gaelic) to be naturalized, even if native Irish rarely speak the latter Why? To make it fucking difficult to obtain, to make people earn and value it while teaching them about the culture.
- erikjonsson0
i fucking hate how people oppress woman.
thats all
- chalk0
This seems like a Google argument.
- neue75_bold0
If the movement to ban the burqa in any given country was being led by women whom felt they were being oppressed by having to wear it, I reckon I'd be the first one to hop on board of that train...
- ok, maybe not first, I'm slow on the uptake..neue75_bold
- you'd hop on board any train filled by women... as would I. :)Amicus
- The problem is they are bashed or stoned if they speak upali
- valid point, but there are afghan women in other countries whom lobby against female genital mutilationneue75_bold
- and such, so it's not unprecedented..neue75_bold
- They have tried...in countries like Iranukit
- neue75_bold0
* tjeore burqa bump
- Amicus0
I wouldn't ban this...
- MakeBelieve0
Facts from Muslims:
1) The niqab is the face-veil called the Niqab, no the Burqa
So the Niqab is being banned.2) Burqa - full body covering (not being banned)
3) Hijab - head covering or headscarf, this is NOT the niqab or face-veil and is what majority of Muslim women wear.
4) Less than 10% of Muslim women wear the Niqab or face-veil.
5) There is no mandate from primary texts (Qur'an and Hadith) for the wearing of the face-veil, But the headscarf (hijab) is mandatory.
Wearing the niqab is optional and only encouraged by scholars, not an Islamic obligation.France and other countries that ban the face-veil or other items of clothing are discriminating and is a violation of personal human rights. We should be allowed to wear whatever we want.
If a woman can wear a bikini in the middle of the street, then why can't a woman choose to cover.
A) The notion that women are coerced is false and not quantifiable, it is almost impossible to determine how many women are forced to wear the veil. And since the number is less than 5% in most western countries, it is ridiculously small. More domestic abuse occurs than forced veiling anywhere.
B) The security argument is totaly false, currently all Niqab-wearing women have to show their faces to security, on ID cards, passports etc. So this argument is baseless.
C) The notion that society needs to see the face is again totally baseless. Most people communicate daily via email and phone with people they have never ever met, yet they do business perfectly fine. It is simply discriminatory to
D)
Banning the veil or other religious (or non-religious) items of clothing and rights will push people underground or away.
Don't even bother to imply that people 'should go back to their country' or 'if you want to live in France/Europe, you have to...' is at times racist and ignorant. As many of the Muslims in the west are actually western themselves. Born or ethnically white-Caucasian, first, second and third generation Muslims. Even if a Muslim is first generation born Moroccan in France, they are still French and nobody can ask them to 'go back to their country'.
Saudi Arabia: "But in Saudi Arabia they force women to wear veils and a dress code"
Who ever said that was right? Yes, SA are wrong to force people to do anything, in Islam, God says 'There is no compulsion in Islam' - so technically it is un-Islamic to force people to do something they don't. Free-will is a (God-given) blessing. SA has a minority of Muslims, who are not the majority and interpret the faith in very literal and conservative manners.Iran: Again, the same as SA, they are not right in imposing state-directed laws on dress or faith.
Why not visit Morocco, Egypt, Jordan, Lebanon, Malaysia or Dubai to see the diversity in faith and custom? Why pick the two most intolerant countries, as if they represent 'Islam' or 'Muslims' - when they are a minority. The comparison is flawed. Most Muslim-majority countries do not impose restrictions on dress by law.
Finally, funny how male politicians in Europe are telling women how to dress! Welcome to the 21st century.
I hope at least Britain has the sense to keep our basic human right to wear what we want.
- *correct: The face veil is called 'Niqab', not the burqa.MakeBelieve
- MakeBelieve0
I don't think any of the politicians have ever met a veil-wearing women or have bothered to even do a basic survey of them/from them.
A Niqabi speasks:
- its_only_me0
- security shouldn't be the reason for any ban. hoodies would be banned otherwise.BusterBoy
- They tried to ban them somewhere in England a few years ago, citing anti-social behaviour on the part of the wearers.Continuity
- ... wearers.Continuity
- neue75_bold0
the closest I've experienced was wearing a salwar kameez when I was married...
- BusterBoy0
MB, you have argued your point well and I agree with a lot of what you are saying.
I can't agree with "C) The notion that society needs to see the face is again totally baseless." While it may be your right to cover your face if you choose, it's my right to think it is totally anachronistic.
Having said that, it's such a minute portion of the population I don't think it's necessary.
- airey0
my wife makes me wear pants around the house. now that's fucking oppression.
- lolits_only_me
- What about her rights? She'd make you wear 2 pairs if she could.ETM
- DrBombay0
The ban is stupid, unless you want to:
1. Enter a bank.
2. Drive a vehicle.
3. Do anything else that requires photo ID.Also, the police should have the right to make the woman remove it in the event that they need to identify them.
- Most veil-wearing women already agree with this. But not a blanket ban for no reason.MakeBelieve
- DrBombay0
I recall seeing something in California about a woman that wanted to wear her veil for her driver's license photo. That is just stupid.
- bulletfactory0
ok, i've skipped to page 6 - what's the decision?