God & Jesus
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- gramme0
flashbender, to answer your question:
Exactly. It's pointless. It is impossible to live a *truly* righteous life if a person is not redeemed, changed from the inside out by the Holy Spirit. All of our good works are ashes and dust, because not one of us is capable of attaining perfection. Perfection is required to enter heaven. Thankfully, there is a perfect advocate, who literally acts as the protection and priest between man and God.
If you don't like the sound of that, fine; but it is in the Bible, not my interpretation. These things are pretty clear. One can't sneer at these concepts and still claim to be a fan of Jesus in any way. We can't have our cake and eat it too, in this case.
- +1 but I am sure you will get flamed :)designbot
- so be it, I know those are fighting words.gramme
- I admire the steadfastness of your faith, but I do not share it.flashbender
- that's fine with me, hopefully we can continue being cordial :)gramme
- of course. I have no problem with anyone. As someone said eariler, I know people of all different faiths and almost >>flashbender
- all of them are fine people. I have nothing against Christians, I have just decided that organized religion is not for me.flashbender
- anyone.Antonelli
- mikotondria30
So, people 'sin', ie act against the god in their nature, against god, or other people or themselves...I understand what this means enough to continue the reasoning...
God, seeing this, became as human as possible, and came to earth to teach humanity what was expected, and by example how to do it.....mmm-ok, continue.
However - for some hitherto unexplained reason, it was necessary for him to die (in so far as he could ever die), SO THAT all people, past and future, COULD BE ABLE to be accepted into heaven and exist alongside god himself. In eternity, blah blah.
SO THAT, and COULD BE ABLE make NO effing sense.
Ah, but Jesus died FOR YOU - what ? Bollocks to that, I didnt ask him to, I didnt create the scheme whereby he MUST have died so that I am freed my the penalty of MY SINS, sorry, Im not playing.
That;s just bloody rude to be honest.
- gramme0
miko, it sucks, but thus is the way of the world. You and I were born into it, boyo. I don't know all the reasons for the setup we're stuck with, that being intrinsic imperfection. Why not stick with the original deal, like Adam and Eve had in the garden – perfection completely devoid of sin, and thus devoid of death? So far it has worked out for God's glory, and I am sure it will continue to do so until I can personally ask him for all the details that are still missing.
Thankfully, we know enough to carry on. It's been available to us since the beginning of humanity.
- there must be a billion people in heaven, I have a feeling you may be waiting 10,000 years for an appointment.mrdobolina
- Thankfully God is omnipresent, so he's pretty good at multi-tasking :)gramme
- //oh christ...mrdobolina
- TALKING FUCKING SNAKES.Antonelli
- 7point340
ok at the risk of getting sucked into an argument:
"but it is in the Bible, not my interpretation. These things are pretty clear. "
that is a complex line. the bible was written ages ago and has been translated through too many different languages, not to mention some of which don't even exist anymore. you can open up 10 different versions of the bible and the messages will be similar but they will all have different wording and phrasing. everything about the bible is interpreted. you try to get the meaning - not necessarily the literal meaning, becaus ethat was lost long agao and probably doesn't even apply anymore, but the intended message, or the moral, or the cliffs notes, etc.
i am a christian person, i believe what i want to believe and i applaud anyone and everyone else having their own personal beliefs, but please can we just leave it at that?
- are you saying Coptic doesn't exist anymore?flashbender
- Coptic is all WONG!!!
try the veal, and don't forget to tip your waitresses.7point34 - Oh crap, you ZINGED! meflashbender
- hedge0
I just don't understand why it's such a burden to capitalize the words then. I capitalize the Koran, Buddha, Krishna.
- yet your name is lowercase :)PonyBoy
- why do you if you only believe in the christian gOD, dinky?mrdobolina
- instrmntl0
these pretzels are making me thirsty.
- flashbender0
*wishes Jesse would wander in and spit the real Truth
- That guy doesn't know jack with his esoteric "research" :)designbot
- And the award for most ironic post goes to...... designbot! Bravo, now come claim your award.2cents
- I guess we'll all find out in about 4 yearsflashbender
- sorry 2cents, but my beliefs certainly aren't esoteric. You could subjectively say that I don't know jack...but hey that's your opinion.designbot
- opinion.designbot
- Indeed it is.2cents
- 2cents0
Why does god hate homosexuals?
"treat thy neighbor as thyself"
(Leviticus 19:18, Matthew 19:19, Matthew 22:39)- Yeah, uh...
It's not you, It's me.JesusChrist - God doesn't hate anybody. Nowhere in the Bible does it say that God ever has or will hate anyone. Period.gramme
- The ONLY thing God hates is sin.designbot
- So butt secks is sin? Why is god so against it? Did he have a bad prostate exam?2cents
- God need more followers. Butt secks = no babies.flashbender
- Yeah, uh...
- gramme0
7.34:
Most of the Bible was written in Hebrew and Greek. Hebrew has changed very little over the millennia, and those changes have been well catalog so as to preserve the meaning of original texts. Hellenic Greek has been studied, not just by theologians but by academicians as well for centuries; for the student who faithfully learns their ancient Hebrew and Greek, the text is as clear, relevant and vibrant as ever. There is no mysteriously missing information, not that was intended for inclusion in Scripture at any rate.
- gramme0
In other words, translators do not translate from Greek to Latin to Old English to modern English. They go straigh to the original language.
- locustsloth0
Ever play the game, Telephone, where a line of people try to tell each subsequent person what they were told by the previous person (in the same language, no less), often ending in hilarity over the non-sensical product of the exercise?
Isn't there one iota of a possibility that, for better or for worse, this could happen to an ancient text that's been handed down through millenia?- especially one's based on oral tradition7point34
- purple monkey dishwasheracescence
- This is more pertaining to those who strictly adhere to the words in the Biblelocustsloth
- No, god is above the game telephone, he is the telephone.2cents
- And this is also not to say that the whole thing is trash because of this, just that it's changedlocustsloth
- haha, you said oral.flashbender
- see above.gramme
- harlequino0
'sup? uh...we still posting funny pictures?
hmm?
oh hey are those pretzels...
- mrdobolina0
logic goes out the window when you believe this stuff.
- mrdobolina0
do you guys stay kosher?
- what I mean is no pig, no shellfish etc?mrdobolina
- or the new testament doesnt give a shit about that?mrdobolina
- yeah it was a hebrew tradition... vetoed7point34
- i know because some folks at a previous job were actually having a heated discussion about this at lunch one day7point34
- tragic7point34
- Mimio0
What would it matter Locus? It's all man-made in the first place.
- locustsloth0
Look, everyone, the last thing i'm trying to do is diminish someone else's religion, i am just wishing that everyone, regardless or their faith or lack of, would accept and admit that there's a possibility that they could be wrong.
(i know, i know...kinda defies the definition of "having faith")- since when does "having faith" mean you have to be a pretentious asshole?7point34
- Why apologize about diminishing someone's religion?Mimio
- "For those who will put their faith in me thou whilst look down upon upon their unsaved brethren and feel superior"flashbender
- i guess it's a fine line between being confident and being pretentiouslocustsloth
- flashbender, who's to say that that's not part of the text that's been altered, as we proposed above?locustsloth
- it is written in ballpoint pen in mine - does that mean it was altered?flashbender
- gramme0
I don't know all the details as I mentioned above, nor did I author any of them. I just happen to believe that certain things, revealed in Scripture, are immutable, unchanging, set in stone, finis. There is wiggle room for mystery in some areas, but not on most things we've discussed in this thread. To believe that Jesus could have been mistaken when he said "I am THE way, THE truth..." etc., would be a watering of my beliefs. That I will not do for political correctness or any other reason.
Again, I wrote none of it; I merely believe it. Therein lies the difference between arrogance/pretention and faith.