The bible..
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- Concrete0
All the quoted texts from that first link contradict your belief.
- TheBlueOne0
Jesus not only claimed to be God, but He proved His claim through the fulfillment of messianic prophecy, the performance of miracles, and ultimately through His historically verifiable resurrection from the dead.
flagellum
(Oct 16 07, 09:11)By that logic then Muhammed is equally credible as he fulfilled EXACTLY those same things within his tradition. (I spent last night digging around in the Koran outta curiousity)
Fulfilled Messianic prophecy? Check.
Miracles? Check.
So, why is J-man valid and Muhammed a heretic in your tradition?
Oh because someone was around and wrote it down? It was witnessed? Um same deal-e-O with Muhammed...
Ahhhhh....nevermind...I'm sure it'll all sort out...violently or otherwise...
Me I'll be chilling in my Deist hammock of reason laughing at you fools...
- Kuz0
not to mention, gramme, that sin has had a progressively deleterious effect. Entropy. Back then, lifespans were longer for this reason as well.
flagellum
(Oct 12 07, 08:55)bwahaha!! Oh man flemmy, you've dropped some clangers in your time, but this one is reet fuckin up there!
Yeah like so everyone in the long long ago, in the before time, used to live to be 1000 like fuckin Methusela, and Adam and Eve and their close progeny lived to be 10,000 years old!
But due to the second law of thermodynamics, which deals with energy exchanges in an open system, it is actually a function of this subjective concept called *sin*, which means in the future human lifespan will be no more than 50 years. When actually all scientists and data point to an increase in human lifespan, and the possibilty of crossing the 120 year threshold.
Right, THIS is the science your bible teaches you. Lord have mercy....
- Kuz0
no no, i can't get my head round it.
The second law of thermodynamics exists because Adam ate that apple... thats what he's saying.
right... man never have i encountered a more off the wall, perniciously delusional individual than flegum...
any "rational" person would spaz out if his world view relied on adding ad hoc theory on top of ad hoc theory on top of ad hoc theory - but oh no, not this guy. It's like he's contstructed the perfect fortress for himself in his own head.
there some kind of fiendish genius in that...
- kelpie0
come on, none of the science is remotely neccessary:
God can do what he wants, flood the world, dry up the world, make people live 700 years, transmogrify into a man, die, and come back to life, appear as a burning bush, create the universe in 7 days.
he just can, he's the supreme being, why bother to wrap it up in pseudoscience?
unless of course science is obviously the daddy, and has taken religion to school in the car of pain. Religion is a fat stupid child and science is laughing and batting it on the back of its fat sweaty head. With the rolled-up jotter of reason and enlightenment.
sorry, not my words, my bro's, had to be posted though, lol
- Kuz0
Ha, i like your brother kelpie, almost as much as i like you :)
that's the deal with this phlegmellum guy.
Once upon a time he was 100% against evolution. And he was 100% sure all the animal life that exists on the planet was on Noah's boat.
Now he says, actually only "kinds" of animals were on that boat. And that evolution did happen, but it only happened between the end of the flood, and the coming of the christ child.
Because between then and now, God did some magic shit.
So basically sometimes science is right, but then, now and again, God does some voodoo business and makes things back in line as its written in the bible.
It's like he just makes up this shit as he goes along!!!
- Kuz0
or reads is on one of those websites that tell him how to think...
- planet010
why would you point to an entry on wikipedia detailing the deadsea scrolls as defending the 'accuracy' of the old testament ?
Why? Someone brought up the notion that what we currently have is a copy of a copy of a copy, implying that we can't possibly trust that what we currently have is accurate to the original source.
The dead sea scrolls point to the accuracy of our current scriptures. Something written down more than two thousand years ago lines up almost perfectly with current texts.
And by almost perfectly, I mean that, a word off here or there. No inserted content, no changing of meaning.
- Kuz0
i can see him backtrack already.
"Yeah, humans might be living longer "again" cos like, since jesus's time, the world was saved and absolved of sin, therefore entropy is now in reverse, but only in terms of human lifespans, so it's no longer having a "deleterious" effect on life, as it was before jesus."
ad hoc, ad hoc, ad infinitum...
this guy is so much fun.
i gotta leave man. ha..
- Concrete0
Ha, i like your brother kelpie, almost as much as i like fatties :)
Kuz
(Oct 17 07, 05:39)
- flagellum0
blueOne: You need to do a lot more homework. Why don't you start here:
http://www.equip.org/site/c.muI1…
A cursory comparative study of the Bible and the Quran will demonstrate how they are not even in the same category, with regard to historicity.
kuz: Congratulations... your ignorance is invincible. I've never seen so many strawmen set up and then conveniently knocked down in only one or two partially comprehensible cockney rants. I do hope this trend continues, however. ;)
For starters, I've never once "100%" denied "evolution". I've always believed in speciation (not by impotent Darwinian mechanisms, mind you). And I have never been decidedly Young Earth. Finally, who gives a rip about lifespans of early humans?
- Kuz0
ha, yeah man. you're cool bro.
keep on keepin on!
- gramme0
mikotondria2, if you don't believe, then just don't believe, and move on........
I mean, damn man, its almost like you want someone to convince you, or you just want to rant.
Kirshar
(Oct 16 07, 20:30)Furthermore, anyone who can't see the positive moral and ethical contributions of Christianity and its members (see: Augustine, St. Francis, David Livingstone, Abraham Lincoln, Bono, J.R.R. Tolkien, C.S. Lewis, etc. etc. etc.) is deaf, dumb and blind and cannot be reasoned with.
- gramme0
Furthermore, if anyone here is actually interested in answers to some of the questions asked in this thread (being one of 3 or 4 Christians present in these threads, I am sure some good questions fell through the cracks), please do email me. I would be happy to discuss further.
Anyone interested in merely flapping their gums and arguing for the sake of arguing without any real interest in dialogue, kindly bugger off.
Thank you.
- Kuz0
yeah gramme, each to his own, it's all cool and that - St Augustine's an inspirational figure. I'm actually reading a book on him.
But its when we enter the realm of ABSURDITY with fliggum goin on like he was up there about sin and entropy and human lifespans.
that's when i think, fuck, these people are *sick*.
- capsize0
buggery=bogomils
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bog…
- Kuz0
sorry, i meant St Francis, not Augustine
- flagellum0
I don't think there's anything unreasonable about believing that sin has left nothing untouched with regard to it's deletirious effects. It's standard Christian doctrine.
- Mimio0
Too bad there's a substantial generational increase in life expectancy over the past 150+ years.
- gramme0
Concrete:
John 1
1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2He was with God in the beginning.
3Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. 4In him was life, and that life was the light of men. 5The light shines in the darkness, but the darkness has not understood[a] it.6There came a man who was sent from God; his name was John. 7He came as a witness to testify concerning that light, so that through him all men might believe. 8He himself was not the light; he came only as a witness to the light. 9The true light that gives light to every man was coming into the world.[b]
10He was in the world, and though the world was made through him, the world did not recognize him. 11He came to that which was his own, but his own did not receive him. 12Yet to all who received him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God— 13children born not of natural descent,[c] nor of human decision or a husband's will, but born of God.
14The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the One and Only,[d] who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.
15John testifies concerning him. He cries out, saying, "This was he of whom I said, 'He who comes after me has surpassed me because he was before me.' " 16From the fullness of his grace we have all received one blessing after another. 17For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ. 18No one has ever seen God, but God the One and Only,[e][f]who is at the Father's side, has made him known.
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This "Word" in Aramaic is another name for God, used throughout both the Old and New Testaments. It is consistently clear in its reference to deity.