Blair - Immigration
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- Jaline0
para, what's the link? I've been checking out YH lately...
- lowimpakt0
brits out
- Jaline0
I am an immigrant and my view is, my new country doesn't owe me anything, I have been granted a privilege. If I don't learn the language, it is my fault that I don't understand what they say to me in the tax office. It's nice to have leaflets and forms in my own language, but it shouldn't lead to absurdities like Spanish being an official language in California.
rafalski
(Dec 13 06, 03:31)I agree, but I think people should be allowed to dress the way they want to (unless it proves to be a security threat, but that's questionable), have the food they like available, etc. Is Spanish spoken in a large part of California? Because if it is then there isn't much of a choice than to make it an official language. People have had many discussions in Ottawa about keeping it bilingual and I really don't think we have a choice. I mean, there are A LOT of french-speaking people here, partly because all the government buildings are here and the rest are in Gatineau, which is just a few minutes away from downtown.
- paraselene0
it is a tricky one, vespa. i'd say there's a distinction between inciting and facilitating violence.
spewing hateful opinion is actually something that we are all entitled to do. sometimes it's tough to live with, but if the choice is whether to drag it out into the open for rational debate or censor it, then i'd rather have it out in the open.
you're completely right that when expressing an opinion crosses over into planning or providing the tools with which to commit an act of violence, then absolutely we should prosecute.
until that line is crossed, though, our hands our tied by our freedoms.
- soda0
jamble, there simply wouldn't have been an NHS back in post war britain without immigrants. We could argue this all day, my point is it's wrong to paint everyone with a brown face with the same brush. Be it as asylum seekers, benefit dodgers, muslim extremists or ponces who won't integrate or learn the language. Is ignorant and it is racist. And it ignores the benefits and the massive influence millions of immigrants have had on the UK.
- vespa0
it's an interesting one para for sure.
i do believe in freedom of speech. and i believe that ideas like liberty and egalitarianism are strong enough to stand up to free debate.
but in cases of organised violence, it's often not the organisers who are carrying out the violence, they send off young footsoldiers to do the dirty work. so how do you make sure the leaders get prosecuted? how do you make sure the donald rumsfelds of the world get done and not just the lindy englands?
is an idea responsible for the people who believe in it?
- jamble0
" You do also realise that the majority of the NHS is staffed by immigrants don't you? If everyone fucked off 'where they belong' the NHS would cease working. "
It's not a huge stretch of the imagination to suggest that the NHS is already fucked. You've got people waiting years for operations and you can't get registered with an NHS dentist even if you did queue 3 days outside one.
- paraselene0
i do think anyone inciting hatred should be stopped, whether they are people preaching in religious centres or in BNP meetings. i also think benefit fraud should be dealt with. however i take issue with the idea that it's "those immigrants" who are doing all these things. fraudster/hatemonger ing brits do it too!
vespa
(Dec 13 06, 04:36)i hear what you're saying, vespa, but i'm a dyed-in-the-wool first amendment junkie. people acting on hatred should most definitely be stopped, but whether its danish cartoonists, the bnp or anyone else, if we ain't got our freedom of speech we ain't got nuthin.
- vespa0
are we ganging up on phatlee? sorry d00d.
i do think anyone inciting hatred should be stopped, whether they are people preaching in religious centres or in BNP meetings. i also think benefit fraud should be dealt with. however i take issue with the idea that it's "those immigrants" who are doing all these things. fraudster/hatemongering brits do it too!
- soda0
Sorry soda but I disagree.
phatlee
(Dec 13 06, 02:28)what bit do you disagree with?
- Kuz0
I only got the gimmeshelter link. Looks nice. Nice work.
I'll drop it about the YH, think its for best.
- paraselene0
kuz, i sent that link to your email like an hour ago! didn't you get it?
yeah, bawling! nothing i like better. rolling that deadweight straight into the ten pin daydreams. bam!
- rafalski0
hah.. is it because of those vicious words of truth about clicketyclick 6px helvetica orwellian rat maze reality we live in?
Fuck it, let's go bawling..
- Kuz0
what's the link?? i wanna know now??
prick director took me into the office and decided he wanted to make an issue of phone calls i'd made, i almost handed in my notice on the spot but decided to cool it. Even though i know this is an issue that's gonna come back between me and him over the next month or so. arsehole. ah i don't care.
what's the link????!!!
:D
- paraselene0
heh. thanks, raf. moth is in cornwall.
i screwed up the gimme shelter website last night and had to fix it quicksmart this morning before he comes home!
it's like spilling wine on the white carpet while your parents are out of town...
:l
- rafalski0
ok, para, here it goes, but it's only because of the nice day it is today:
you look sad para, are you ok? want some tea? moth, get the girl a cup, will ya please? she looks weirdtoday..
- paraselene0
i was grand and shall be grand again!
just followed some idiot link to yh (i know, i know) and read some not so nice stuff.
woteva. who gives a fuck.
:D
good mood revived.
- Kuz0
aww, what's wrong pet? i'm having a bad day too but decided to turn my mood around.
*hug
- paraselene0
*grumble, grumble
bad day.
:(
- Kuz0
hehe, he's a funny sod me grandad. I actually think he speaks less english now than he used to. It's quite funny watching him attempt it tho, when sales people call or someone "that this this that bloody blooody mumble mumble bloody this that that mumble mumble"
"you what grandad??"
Not that he really needs to speak it much anymore. All he does is collect his pension, go to the mosque, and watch Westerns on tele. He loves John Wayne for some reason, though i doubt he understands what's going on. Bless.