All Americans from NT...
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- jevad0
fuck this
- toastie0
you have to be a real fool to truly believe that the Iraq war was supposed to be about WMDs.
- vespa0
what do you believe it is about toastie?
- SteveJobs0
"you have to be a real fool to truly believe that the Iraq war was supposed to be about WMDs."
are we talking about what we believe the war was about or the justification of the war from the mouths of bush and kerry? try reading closely.
- shaft0
Are we talking about lazy people or poor people!?
Two very diferent things I guess!
Elfangio
(nov 2 04, 08:26)
------------------------
Very directly connected.
Welfare, especially generous one (ie. Germany's) destroys economy and makes people lazy. Why work if the government can feed you? Then think of where the govt. takes the welfare money from.Socialism gives people a fish (money), capitalism gives them fishing rods (jobs). That's just my opinion.
- Mimio0
True,
There were plans to remove Saddam in early 2001.Congress gave Bush war as an option, not as an inevitability.
- kingjulien0
Repost:
Where Bush Got His Marching Orders...
"One way or the other, we are determined to deny Iraq the capacity to develop weapons of mass destruction and the missiles to deliver them. That is our bottom line."
- President Clinton, Feb. 4, 1998"If Saddam rejects peace and we have to use force, our purpose is clear. We want to seriously diminish the threat posed by Iraq's weapons of mass destruction program."
- President Clinton, Feb. 17, 1998"Iraq is a long way from [here], but what happens there matters a great deal here. For the risks that the leaders of a rogue state will use nuclear, chemical or biological weapons against us or our allies is the greatest security threat we face."
- Madeline Albright, Feb 18, 1998"He will use those weapons of mass destruction again, as he has ten times since 1983."
- Sandy Berger, Clinton National Security Adviser, Feb, 18, 1998"We urge you, after consulting with Congress, and consistent with the U.S. Constitution and laws, to take necessary actions (including, if appropriate, air and missile strikes on suspect Iraqi sites) to respond effectively to the threat posed by Iraq's refusal to end its weapons of mass destruction programs."
- Letter to President Clinton, signed by Sens. Carl Levin (D-MI), Tom Daschle (D-SD), John Kerry ( D - MA), and others Oct. 9, 1998"Saddam Hussein has been engaged in the development of weapons of mass destruction technology which is a threat to countries in the region and he has made a mockery of the weapons inspection process."
- Rep. Nancy Pelosi (D, CA), Dec. 16, 1998"Hussein has ... chosen to spend his money on building weapons of mass destruction and palaces for his cronies."
- Madeline Albright, Clinton Secretary of State, Nov. 10, 1999"There is no doubt that ... Saddam Hussein has invigorated his weapons programs. Reports indicate that biological, chemical and nuclear programs continue apace and may be back to pre-Gulf War status. In addition, Saddam continues to redefine delivery systems and is doubtless using the cover of a licit missile program to develop longer-range missiles that will threaten the United States and our allies."
- Letter to President Bush, Signed by Sen. Bob Graham (D, FL,) and others, December 5, 2001"We begin with the common belief that Saddam Hussein is a tyrant and threat to the peace and stability of the region. He has ignored the mandate of the United Nations and is building weapons of mass destruction and the means of delivering them."
- Sen. Carl Levin (D, MI), Sept. 19, 2002"We know that he has stored secret supplies of biological and chemical weapons throughout his country."
- Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002"Iraq's search for weapons of mass destruction has proven impossible to deter and we should assume that it will continue for as long as Saddam is in power."
- Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002"We have known for many years that Saddam Hussein is seeking and developing weapons of mass destruction."
- Sen. Ted Kennedy (D, MA), Sept. 27, 2002"The last UN weapons inspectors left Iraq in October of 1998. We are confident that Saddam Hussein retains some stockpiles of chemical and biological weapons, and that he has since embarked on a crash course to build up his chemical and biological warfare capabilities. Intelligence reports indicate that he is seeking nuclear weapons..."
- Sen. Robert Byrd (D, WV), Oct. 3, 2002"I will be voting to give the President of the United States the authority to use force-- if necessary-- to disarm Saddam Hussein because I believe that a deadly arsenal of weapons of mass destruction in his hands is a real and grave threat to our security."
- Sen. John F. Kerry (D, MA), Oct. 9, 2002"There is unmistakable evidence that Saddam Hussein is working aggressively to develop nuclear weapons and will likely have nuclear weapons within the next five years ... We also should remember we have always underestimated the progress Saddam has made in development of weapons of mass destruction."
- Sen. Jay Rockefeller (D, WV), Oct 10, 2002"He has systematically violated, over the course of the past 11 years, every significant UN resolution that has demanded that he disarm and destroy his chemical and biological weapons, and any nuclear capacity. This he has refused to do."
- Rep. Henry Waxman (D, CA), Oct. 10, 2002"In the four years since the inspectors left, intelligence reports show that Saddam Hussein has worked to rebuild his chemical and biological weapon stock, his missile delivery capability, and his nuclear program. He has also given aid, comfort, and sanctuary to terrorists, including al Qaeda members. It is clear, however, that if left unchecked Saddam Hussein will continue to increase his capacity to wage biological and chemical warfare, and will keep trying to develop nuclear weapons."
- Sen. Hillary Clinton (D, NY), Oct 10, 2002"We are in possession of what I think to be compelling evidence that Saddam Hussein has, and has had for a number of years, a developing capacity for the production and storage of weapons of mass destruction."
- Sen. Bob Graham (D, FL), Dec. 8, 2002"Without question, we need to disarm Saddam Hussein. He is a brutal, murderous dictator, leading an oppressive regime ... He presents a particularly grievous threat because he is so consistently prone to miscalculation .. And now he is miscalculating America's response to his continued deceit and his consistent grasp for weapons of mass destruction... So the threat of Saddam Hussein with weapons of mass destruction is real."
- Sen. John F. Kerry (D, MA), Jan. 23. 2003
- toastie0
Aside from the oil and corporate contracts,which are side effects really, Iraq is a vital strategic point in the middle east, a perfect base for the US-led crusade. The plan for the Iraq war was created by Paul Wolfowitz, someone who is one of the main neo-cons and is strongly pro-Israel, and the benefit for Israel here is evident, not to mention whatever gripes they might have had with Iraq, what with being banished from there and all.
- toastie0
kingjulien, once again, presidents don't make these decisions, they simply approve or diapprove of them, and the people that DO make them have been pretty much the same people since the early 70s, no matter who is in the white house.
- pascii0
you will do your choices and i know you are not all jerks.
*off
- Mimio0
So, kingjulien, that's reason enough to call off the inspections and declare war? To present fraudulent evidence to the world and our allies in order to trump up a charge of material breach of UN Res 1441?
- monkeyshine0
God, Im too tired to argue politics. Aren't ya'll worn out?
But...I gotta say, SteveJobs, you should be better informed if you come in here spouting stuff. Bush and Kerry are not the same and they do not "feel the same" about gay marriage.
And I'm sick of people saying they're the same. There's miles of difference between them.
- toastie0
read these carefully first
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pau…
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Don…
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dic…
- whoohaa0
Issued conflicting information to justify war with Iraq. In February 2001 Powell met with Egyptian Foreign Minister Amre Moussa. In a press briefing on that meeting, Powell described a discussion he had with Moussa regarding the sanctions on Iraq. He stated that the sanctions were required in order to “[keep] in check Saddam Hussein's ambitions toward developing weapons of mass destruction.” [2] Powell further explained that the sanctions had proven successful, saying, “they [the sanctions] have worked. He [Sadaam Hussein] has not developed any significant capability with respect to weapons of mass destruction. He is unable to project conventional power against his neighbors.” [3] This statement conflicts with assertions Powell made in March 2003 to the UN Security Council in justifying the case for war with Iraq: “Iraq had and still has the capability to manufacture these kinds of weapons, Iraq had and still has the capability to manufacture not only chemical but biological weapons, and Iraq had and still has literally tens of thousands of delivery systems...” [4]
When addressing the UN Security Council in February 2003, Powell claimed that intelligence had taken photographs of an area that was a “poison and explosive training center camp,” and its purpose was to teach “operatives how to produce ricin and other poisons.” [5] British journalists traveled to the camp days after Powell made this assertion only to find “a dilapidated collection of concrete outbuildings at the foot of a grassy sloping hill. Behind the barbed wire, and a courtyard strewn with broken rocket parts, are a few empty concrete houses. There is a bakery. There is no sign of chemical weapons anywhere - only the smell of paraffin and vegetable ghee used for cooking.” [6]
ze end
- kingjulien0
Of course that's not reason to declare war, it's just a friendly reminder that both sides considered Saddam a real threat prior to 9.11, that Saddam himself did purposely distort information to appear to possess these weapons for strategic reasons, and that the war is much more complex than any one sentence overgeneralization or oversimplification.
Just to be clear, I don't support Bush in any way, and I don't support the war, I'm just tired of people who are already predisposed to a particular point of view who arrogantly tell me how I should feel.
The truth is, nobody really knows what is going on behind the scenes...
- SteveJobs0
Kerry: "I personally believe marriage is between a man and a woman."
Source: Third Bush-Kerry debate, in Tempe AZ Oct 13, 2004Bush: "It's very important that we protect marriage as an institution, between a man and a woman."
Source: Third Bush-Kerry debate, in Tempe AZ Oct 13, 2004
- Mimio0
Maybe kingjulien,
But the current public explaination of policy/tactics aren't good enough. We all know Saddam was a evil dictator, but the non-violent methods of disarming him weren't fully explored under this administration. So now Americans and countless Iraqis will die for Bush's error.
- vespa0
The truth is, nobody really knows what is going on behind the scenes...
kingjulien
(nov 2 04, 09:01)now aint that the truth.
- SteveJobs0
"The truth is, nobody really knows what is going on behind the scenes... "
i think this is the real root of the problem.
- k0na_an0k0
i voted this morning, bright and early.
here in illinois it's raining, which is actually good for bush. in ghetto, it is a statistical fact that when raining, well, the persons living there do not leave the house, especially not to vote. illinois being a majority democrat, it helps bush.
like i said. i however voted early. i did my part. now. lets all wait until i'll bet christmas before we find out who one after the laywers and courts tell us so.