kirk cameron
- Started
- Last post
- 122 Responses
- Mimio0
Naw, it's more like old ladies with the fear of death in them.
- jakeyj0
"You've never read any (intentional) fiction at all, have you? _LotR_, and thousands of other books, are crammed full of details, including invented languages. I guess it's all real too!"
I'm talking about documents that are claiming to be actual history. LOTR is awesome though
"Three contradictory accounts of who was there and when, that's pretty damaging for a so-called historically accurate document."
If you read them really though, they are not contradictory, but rather complimentary.
"Pliny the Younger was born 30 years after Jesus died, Josephus about 4 years -- hardly living eye witnesses, they could only chronicle what others claimed happened. And there's compelling evidence that Josephus' "golden paragraph" was added years (as many as 300, the reign of Constantine) later"
Nice bit of research. And to what do you trust this little bit of history? Namely the births of Pliny and Josephus? other historical documents of course. besides, the fact still remains that those who were reading Josephus' writings could have easily verified the truthfulness of his writings with people who were still alive that witnessed the events!
- exador10
Hey jakeyj
you're responses have been forthright, detailed and kind.that said, i still have to disagree with you on a few things..
the many lands, many religions argument still hasn't been satisfactorily dealt with...the fact remains there are whole helluva lot more Hindus etc than christians..
how can they all be wrong?...none of them seem to think the only way up is through jesus..
does that mean they're all doomed?
second, the bible, while certainly quite detailed, is certainly not the only historical document..there are pleny in India that go back a whole lot further..
now, a lot of us folks are going to india any time soon (well, i am this winter, but i digress) so there's no harm or foul not knowing that there are other ancient documents out there from other religions..
but there you have it...
there are, and they are plenty older...
does that make them true?
i have know idea..i suppose they are pretty true and important to those that believe them tho....and the whole morality thing...lets face it, right and wrong isn't the territory of the devine..it's found in each and every one of us...it's the natural capacity for love and empathy....
anyhow, my two cents worth...
personally i think it's fine for those that believe it, but i kinda think it's a load of hogwash....
it's not called the opiate of the masses for nothing...
;)
- GreedoLives0
none of this matters anyways, since the mormons already baptized us all in absentia, including christ.
- jakeyj0
"how can they all be wrong?...none of them seem to think the only way up is through jesus..does that mean they're all doomed?"
i don't know the answer to that. what i do know is that God is a perfect judge and he'll sort it out. i think it depends on how much you know about Jesus
"there are pleny in India that go back a whole lot further."
they may be historical, but just because they go back further doesn't mean they are more accurate. i believe in a comparison, the bible holds up better than other religious text.
christianity as religion is an opiate. christianity as a relationship is not
- jakeyj0
mormons are not christians. they are a cult.
- GreedoLives0
mormons would beg to differ.
and christianity was a cult, too.
i think the threshold is 1 million adherents. then it's a religion. Guess what?
It's a religion.
- sputnik0
hahahaha...kirk cameron.
what a tool.
- BonSeff0
*points at the kettle
- AprilRains0
At this point I am almost positive that you have a very religious Christian family and friends. Am I safe to assume this? You say you gave other religions the ol' college try and your family and friends probably encouraged you to do so..correct? But of course you found out that Christianity was right for you all on your own because you read some books and talked to some people of various other religions. What your not taking into consideration is the fact that you have been bombarded with Christianity your whole life. Say you found out that Buddhism was right for you...where would you be on Christmas morning when your family was opening presents, where would you be on Easter etc.? My point is that it's so easy for you to believe this because its convenient for you. If you told ma and pa that you were now a Hindu, would they be "good for you son!" NO, of course it would turn your life upside down. I don't claim to know what it's like to be in your shoes and to have this shoved in your face since you were small, but you have to think that it's a pretty big coincidence that you happened to be born into a Christian family and Christianity is the only true religion...whew....you sure were lucky.
- mg330
He'd be so much cooler if his name were Kirk Camaroon.
- jakeyj0
sounds like you had a bad experience with a person like the one you're describing - am i right
- AprilRains0
Um, who me? No, actually I've never had a bad experience with religion. I just see it from a totally objective view point since I haven't been forced into religion from childhood and I haven't been forced into atheism. My parents go to church on Sunday but they are not religious per say. They just follow the crowd. I don't see the point.
- j_red0
isn't a cameroon a kind of girl-scout cookie?
- j_red0
scratch that. it's a macaroon.
- jakeyj0
everyone - thanks for the open and honest chat. its time for me to go home!
- kodap0
wtf is "heaven" ?
- sputnik0
a place which auto-deletes posts such as this
- i_monk0
jakeyj:
That isn't a rebuttal.
I could write a self-declared Accurate Historic Account of the Universe From the Beginning Right Up Til Yesterday and cram it with details and that wouldn't make it true either.
Josephus and Pliny the Younger are historical figures because there are both records of them from other sources as well as their own works in context. That you offer up two people who weren't alive at the time and victims of obvious forgery centuries later, as "chroniclers" of Jesus' so-called life, leads me to believe you haven't done much research of your own, you've just been told This Is The Truth by someone, probably a parent or charismatic pastor, so you take that as gospel.
And are you really suggesting that an account of something is true because someone, at some point in distant history, could have asked around? There are a few obvious flaws with that bit of logic, but here's another:
What answers would you expect an Orthodox Jew and a Early Christian to give to the question "was Jesus the messiah and did he perform miracles"? Who are you going to believe? Which answer would you, a Christian, write down in your fledgling Bible?
- mg330
Camaroon is a country where they all drive Camaros.