another shooting...
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- utopian0
- Hi Freddie:)utopian
- Yes!! Thanks Utopian. Im busted lol. Can't stand your views, love the work though lolVikingKingEleven
- It's all good Fred:)utopian
- abettertomorrow0
Sheriff Dupnik said a total of nineteen people were shot, six of whom were killed. Loughner is in the custoday of the Pima County Sheriff's Department at the moment. Dupnik also referenced reports that a suspicious package had been identified at Giffords' Tucson office.
Sheriff Dupnik also made a passionate plea for cooler heads to prevail in political debate, decrying the vitriolic tone of some talk radio hosts.
"When you look at unbalanced people, how they respond to the vitriol that comes out of certain mouths about tearing down the government. The anger, the hatred, the bigotry that goes on in this country is getting to be outrageous. And, unfortunately, Arizona I think has become sort of the Capital. We have become the Mecca for prejudice and bigotry."
Dupnik later added that such "vitriol might be free speech, but it's not without consequences."
- moth0
Save the anti-gun rhetoric.
I wish I could bury my head that deep.
- fadein110
I found it very surprising how slow CNN reported it on their website...
BBC sent me a news alert email about 2 hours before anything appeared on CNN website. Very strange.- Nothing strange. Just proves American news is shit.randommail
- Maybe they were just trying to nail down a few more facts given the nature of it.ETM
- yep truefadein11
- monkeyshine0
Oh yeah, let's not hold anyone accountable except the deranged dude who shot Rep. Giffords...afterall, we do live in a vacuum, right? I don't get that argument.
- detritus0
Unsettling how many Western pundits hope and rely upon China's ascent stumbling under its own internal pressures, with the distinct impression that competing social forces will rip it apart before it reaches parity.
I can't help but wonder whether it might be America that implodes first. So much hate over there. So much discord between political wings which are, in historical terms, not really that polar-opposite.
An interesting century ahead.
- ..not talking about the shooter — more the instant spilling of bitter vitriol every time there's news of note.detritus
- so truerandommail
- You'd have to watch/listen to the right wing media (cable news and radio) here to understand.abettertomorrow
- Its not a 50-50 split, just like 15-20% that have developed these extreme views thanks to the media spoonfeeding themabettertomorrow
- Actually, with the Murdoch takeover of Sky in the UK, you may understand soon enough:)abettertomorrow
- Sky has always been a Murdoch vehicle, current buy is just a question of the last few percent ownership.detritus
- Life's problems are rarely the fault of the 50/50 majority - it's the 20/80 splits that fan the flames of nastier issues.detritus
- ghandolf0
A little about the other victims in the shooting.
U.S. Rep. Gabrielle Giffords was believed to be the main target when a gunman went on a shooting spree that left six dead and at least 13 injured Saturday. Here is a look at some of the victims as they become identified.
Giffords, 40, was first elected to the Arizona House in 2000 and the state Senate in 2002. The Tucson native was elected to the U.S. House in 2006. She married Cmdr. Mark E. Kelly, a NASA astronaut and Navy pilot from New Jersey, in 2007.
U.S. District Judge John M. Roll
Named Arizona's chief federal judge in 2006, Roll won wide acclaim for a career as a respected jurist and as a leader who had pushed to beef up the court's strained bench to handle a growing number of border crime-related cases."I have never met a more sincere ... fair-minded, brilliant federal judge or any judge for that matter in my whole life," Pima County Sheriff Clarence Dupnik said.
Roll, 63, was heading home after a trip to church and the store before stopping to visit briefly with Giffords at an event she was holding for constituents at a northwest-side Tucson Safeway.
Roll was a Pennsylvania native who got his law degree from the University of Virginia. He is survived by his wife, Maureen, three sons, and five grandchildren. Roll was appointed to the federal bench in 1991 by President George H.W. Bush. Roll previously served as a state trial judge and as a judge on the midlevel Arizona Court of appeals. He previously worked as a county and state prosecutor.
"Judge Roll was a widely respected jurist, a strong and able leader of his court, and a kind, courteous and sincere gentleman," said Chief Judge Alex Kozinski of the 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals, the federal circuit that includes Arizona. "He worked tirelessly to improve the delivery of justice to the people of Arizona."Roll, a Pennsylvania native, received death threats in 2009 over a $32 million civil-rights suit filed against an Arizona rancher by illegal immigrants.
At the time, Roll and U.S. Marshal's officials attributed the threats to hysteria from talk radio.
Christina-Taylor Green
The 9-year-old who was shot at the event and later died at a hospital went to the Giffords event with a neighbor because she had just been elected to the student council and was interested in government, her uncle told KTAR in Phoenix.The neighbor, who was not identified Saturday, was shot four times,.
Born Sept. 11, 2001, according to NBC station KVOA, Christina-Taylor attended Mesa Verde Elementary School. She was one of 50 babies featured in " Faces of Hope: Babies Born on 9/11."
Christina was also involved in ballet, Little League baseball and her church. Her grandfather, former major-league pitcher Dallas Green, was the Philadelphia Phillies' team manager when they won the World Series in 1980.She recently received her first Holy Communion at St. Odilia’s Catholic Church on Tucson’s northwest wide, Catholic Diocese of Tucson officials said.
Gabe Zimmerman
Giffords' 30-year-old communications outreach director was engaged to be married, the Arizona Republic reported. He had worked for Giffords in her Tucson district since 2007.“We serve who walks into our office and we don’t even ask what party they belong to,” Zimmerman told the Tucson Citizen in 2007.
Dorwin Stoddard
The 76-year-old retiree was described as a jack of all trades by Mike Nowak, the couple’s minister at Mountain Ave. Church of Christ, told the Arizona Daily Star. Stoddard's wife, Mavanell, was shot in the leg but is expected to recover, the Star reported.Stoddard, who performed maintenance work at the church, and his wife spent summers traveling, friends told the Star. The couple visited all 50 states and 28 foreign countries, they said.
Other victims
Police said Dorthy Morris, 76, and Phyllis Schneck, 79, were also killed in the shooting.Also injured but expected to be all right, said C.J. Karamargin, Giffords' communications director, are staffer Pam Simon and deputy director Ron Barber.
This from...
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4098…
- HijoDMaite0
This conversation shouldn't be about the Tea Party. This is a tragic event from an obviously disturbed and mentally ill individual. His political leanings almost don't matter. He was 20 years old, he's a fuckin kid!
I have a lot of family who are members of the Tea Party. Very intelligent, well educated family whom I love very much and respect their opinions. On the other hand, I have an equal amount of family who is very liberal and votes mostly Democrat and of course very successful, educated and full of common sense. This is the way it has always been, we get along at family gatherings always have, we love and respect each other and can have civil discussions. I certainly don't think it's a good idea to connect a political movement to this kid's fucked up sense of reality. Too young to naive.Having said all that, I hope Sarah Palin learns a lesson in her choice of graphics for her website. We all get it that it's a joke about the cross hairs, and that she's suppose to portray this 'mama bear' 'hockey mom' persona but it's a bit disturbing coming from a mother and grandmother who is suppose to be pro life and born again Christian. She consistently, does and says things to embarrass herself and according to my Conservative side of the family would make a terrible candidate.
- we all don't think the cross hairs are a joke. speak for yourself, homie.BonSeff
- fuck all gun wackos, including Pallin FFSernexbcn
- also, its dishonest to play the mental illness card and dismiss the rhetoric that pushed him to this decisionBonSeff
- well lucky for us he wasn't killed and maybe we'll learn a little more about that.HijoDMaite
- sounds like he was just anti govt. in general, but I'm sure we will learn all the details about his motivation.HijoDMaite
- monkeyshine0
Arizona tea party candidate:
- monkeyshine0
Ridiculousness aside, more grab your crotch and guns talk:
- ETM0
What the hell weapon was he using that he did that much damage before being stopped?? One story on CNN said he was wrestled to the ground within seconds, but he was already trying to reload.
- He had a legally purchased Glock, with extended magazines that help 30 rounds each. The 2nd mag failed.ghandolf
- abettertomorrow0
When the Muslim attacker killed all those people at Fort Hord, did anyone say Al Queda and other terrorist groups weren't blame? Or the suicide bomber in Sweden?
In all three cases you had people who were already mentally troubled to say the least, but it was rhetoric from outside forces that pushed them to act in the way they did.
Not that the Tea Party or American media like Fox are in any way as bad as Al Queda. But they do paint a picture of a government that is illegally out of control, trying to kill off its citizens with death panels or FEMA death camps, and other crazy shit that is divorced from reality. Tea Party has made several comments indicating that violence or violent revolution is justified. And constantly idolizing guns and using violent imagery for shits and giggles like Palin.
So when you have 20% of the country listening to and buying crap like that, and then one of them snaps and shoots a Congresswoman point blank through the head, is there a connection?
- GeorgesII0
?
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“Schools: I attended school: Thornydale elementary, Tortolita Middle School, Mountain View Highschool, Northwest Aztec Middle College, and Pima Community College.
Interests: My favorite interest was reading, and I studied grammar.
Conscience dreams were a great study in college!
Movies:(*My idiom: I could coin the moment!*)
Music:Pass me the strings!
Books: I had favorite books:
Animal Farm, Brave New World,
The Wizard Of OZ, Aesop Fables,
The Odyssey, Alice Adventures Into Wonderland,
Fahrenheit 451, Peter Pan,
To Kill A Mockingbird,
We The Living,
Phantom Toll Booth,
One Flew Over The Cuckoo’s Nest,
Pulp,
Through The Looking Glass,
The Communist Manifesto, Siddhartha,
The Old Man And The Sea,
Gulliver’s Travels,
Mein Kampf,
The Republic, and Meno.”
- abettertomorrow0
I think the more relevant part is not that he read Peter Pan and The Wizard of Oz, but this:
"The motives of Loughner — an English grammar-obsessed Army reject — remain murky, but in the weeks before his apparent outburst, he took to the Web to rail against brainwashing by government officials and “mind-control methods.”
A MySpace page, believed to be Loughner’s, was taken down by law enforcement officials minutes after the suspect was named. It included a “Goodbye friends,” sign-off, with the message, “Please don’t be mad at me.”
A series of rambling and jarring videos posted on his personal Web site under the handle “Classitup10,” paint the portrait of a searching conspiracy theorist fixated on the American flag, perversion of the Constitution and “illiterate” people living in Arizona’s 8th District, which Giffords represents.
A seven-minute video, “America; Your Last Memory is a Terrorist” filmed in a desert mesa, that features a robed figure wearing what a skeleton mask — perhaps Loughner — who approaches a tattered American flag, jammed between rocks.
A bubble pops up on the screen – “Notice I have only my right arm” – against the pounding song, “Let the Bodies Hit the Floor” by the punk band Drowning Pool.
“The majority of the citizens in the United States of America have never read the United States of America’s Constitution. You don’t have to accept the federalists’ laws,” says a video entitled “introduction,” posted on Dec. 15.
In the Dec. 15 video, Loughner writes: “The government is [applying] implying mind control and brainwash on the people by controlling grammar,” and urges viewers to “read the United States of America’s Constitution to apprehend all of the current treasonous laws.”
- abettertomorrow0
Jared Lee Loughner’s rants about grammar and mind control track closely to the writings of a conspiracy theorist who believes that is how the government controls the populace, one leading group says – and the man tells POLITICO he agrees with some of Loughner’s statements.
The far-right activist, David Wynn Miller, said in a telephone interview that he didn’t know Loughner, but agreed with his statement in a YouTube video that “the government is implying mind control and brainwash on the people by controlling grammar.”
“Absolutely I would agree with it,” said Miller, 62, a former tool-and-die maker from Milwaukee who claims 1 billion “students” worldwide.
But he said any suggestion that his writings influenced Loughner to go on a shooting rampage is “ridiculous.”
“I have nothing to do with anything like that,” Miller said, suggesting that Loughner might have been under the influence of government mind control.
Mark Potok, director of the Southern Poverty Law Center’s Intelligence Project, first mentioned Miller during an appearance Saturday on MSNBC’s “Countdown with Keith Olbermann.”
“The idea weirdly enough of controlling grammar, of somehow the government using grammar to control the people is an idea that exists on the radical right. There’s a particular person, a man named David Wynn Miller who has plugged this idea for years,” Potok said.
Miller “claims to have invented truth language,” Potok said in an interview with POLITICO. “His idea is that if you only use the correct grammar and punctuation, you can throw off the shackles of the tyrannical government.”
Potok said Loughner appeared “practically illiterate and quite mentally ill,” but his statements and the books he has cited suggest a “pretty strong anti-government, conspiracy-oriented threat.”
- abettertomorrow0
And this guy Miller is considered part of the something called the "Sovereign Citizens Movement," which is a group of right-wing types obsessed with overthrowing the current Federal Government and returning to the Gold Standard and some idea they have of earlier limited government
- Sounds awfully familiar, doesn't it?abettertomorrow
- wow those are extreme views. Money backed by gold? Smaller govt to weed out corruption! Boy those are dangerous!VikingKingEleven
- ABT you can't even think for yourself. Hilarious. Love ya man.VikingKingEleven
- PS. Do you even know what FIAT currency is? Seriously?VikingKingEleven
- And yet it gets mixed in with violent rhetoric and actions. See: McVeigh, Timothy.abettertomorrow
- HijoDMaite0
This came out today on the WSJ. It's what I was talking about in my earlier post.
"Those who purport to care about the tenor of political discourse don't help civil debate when they seize on any pretext to call their political opponents accomplices to murder."
- VikingKingEleven0
** Obama: “They Bring a Knife...We Bring a Gun”
** Obama to His Followers: “Get in Their Faces!”
** Obama on ACORN Mobs: “I don’t want to quell anger. I think people are right to be angry! I’m angry!”
** Obama to His Mercenary Army: “Hit Back Twice As Hard”
** Obama on the private sector: “We talk to these folks... so I know whose ass to kick.“
** Obama to voters: Republican victory would mean “hand to hand combat”
** Obama to lib supporters: “It’s time to Fight for it.”
** Obama to Latino supporters: “Punish your enemies.”
** Obama to democrats: “I’m itching for a fight.”