Optical Margins ID4
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- brains
Hi everyone, I'm working on a book design currently, and there may be a simple fix to this, but I'm struggling with the optical margins.
The thing is, I have 2 seperate quote sizes, which are drastically different point sizes. I've set the optical margins for the document to accomodate the small 9pt quotes, but when I have my large 22pt quotes, the quotation marks are obviously still within the realms of the 9pt optical margin. Is there any way to do separate optical margins for separate paragraph styles?
Thanks in advance.
- brains0
No ways to have hanging punctuation for multiple type sizes? The googles is turning up bupkiss.
- brains0
What would be the right thing to do typographically in this case? Publisher wants hanging punctuation on large and small, should I just set it for large, and ignore the optical margin for the rest of the styles?
It's quite an informal text, so classical rules need not apply.
- doublespaced0
Maybe I'm old-school, but set them in separate text boxes for the best results.
- brains0
I could do that, but, 150+ pages having to flow copy seperately?
- Seems a little crazy.brains
- get to work
;)doublespaced - I feel like there's got to be a better way.brains
- it really is the difference between designed and not-designed, and it takes time and effortdoublespaced
- Although, I feel this would do some difficult things with slight spacing differences if set in different boxes...brains
- just move the boxes, damndoublespaced
- Well doye, I just mean inconsistencies throughout the book.brains
- you'll be just finedoublespaced
- brains0
Well, here I go. I guess I'll buckle down and do it the long way. Large quotes in seperate text boxes, 150 pages, HERE WE GO!
- ESKEMA0
I don't know if I understood your question correctly, but there's the Story palette that let's you have the effect you're asking for (I think).
- He's trying to find one setting in that palette to work for multiple type sizes.doublespaced
- Miesfan0
You want to have different alignment for each size? Then it's not alignment any more at the story level.
I'm not completely sold on this argument from Adobe, but it does have some persuasiveness. I think there's room for both story level and paragraph level, but they would serve different purposes. What InDesign offers is optical margin alignment for stories, not individual paragraphs. Allow it at the paragraph level and you will no longer have it at the story level. My sense is that too many users want it at the paragraph level that Adobe is being short-sighted by digging in their heels on this one. But paragraph-level optical margins are not the same as story level aligned margins.
Two things I certainly would like to have added to the current feature are:
1. The ability to switch it off for selected paragraph styles.
2. The ability to set different alignment quantities for each margin.
- brains0
I understand that different alignment for each size isn't really story-level alignment. But when it's a system of 22pt punctuation vs. the body type 9pt punctuation, obviously it's a nice idea to keep proper hanging punctuation for both variables.
I guess the only way to do it, is to break the large quotes out and provide them with their own story-level optical margin, see what the publisher says then.
- I feel for yadoublespaced
- but I do this all the timedoublespaced
- hahahaMiesfan
- doublespaced0
I totally agree with the wanted features, Miesfan. It really would be great to have Story settings in some Style, somewhere! They would have to add Story Styles to the already existing Character and Paragraph Styles, I imagine. Or go paragraph level, but that could get really messy.
- Amicus0
I think there is a way to do this. (Haven't tried it for myself, but try it and let us now how it works.)
In the Indents and Spacing section of the Paragraph Styles box you can choose to "Ignore Optical Margin" select this for the larger quote style. Measure the amount of indent you would need to hang the quotes and set up your paragraph indents and negative first line indents accordingly. Use the Optical margins for the 9pt text.
You'll have to indent all other styles and move the text box left a little to compensate for the paragraph indent, but it'll work this way.
Also, if you do use separate text boxes make sure you are using "Align to Grid > All lines" in the same section of the paragraph styles box to keep those baselines in order.
Hope this made sense!
- OK... just did a quick test and it seemed to work, although the Optical Margins feature still needs tweaking anyway.Amicus
- ESKEMA0
If it helps, you can paste one box into another... beats the hell out of having them laying around separately and they keep their optical alignment
- brains0
@Amicus, thanks for that, I was actually working on a very similar workflow to that!
- Amicus0
BTW the Optical Margin feature seems to be tweaked for single quotes, not double, so using it set at 12 or 13pt for 9pt text will quite often yield a better result.
Either that, or it is just plain screwy and just another thing that Adobe needs to tweak.