grid
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- ukit
Hehe. The design blog WebDesigner Depot posted this article about the advantages and disadvantages of designing with grids a couple weeks ago.
http://74.125.155.132/search?q=c…
Provoking several reactions including this one:
http://www.aisleone.net/2009/des…
They've since removed the article due to "some inaccuracies with the content." Still, a little sad to think that so many people are learning to design from sites like that.
- ukit0
Here's another great piece by them: When Minimalism Backfires
- Etype0
that is garbage... just like how that header looks
- ukit0
For those of us who follow a minimalist style, why do we do it?
Is it because we genuinely love the style, despite the complexity of mastering it? Are we committed to using only the minimum requirements in the most effective way, based on our learning and analytics? Or do we do it because we’re lazy?
- fresnobob0
C'mon, the AisleOne article contains just as much ignorance about design and grid systems as the Webdesigner Depot article does.
- ukit0
How so? All it did was rebut the points in the original article
- fresnobob0
A Van Der Graaf canon is not a grid.
A grid is confining and limited by its nature. Thats why its called a grid and thats why you line shit up to it, so you can pull some order out of the infinite.
A grid is not appropriate for all design situations.Things like that... Don't get me wrong, the Webdesigner Depot clearly has no idea what hes talking about (even the example of a website that doesn't use a grid has a grid...), but whereas that article says "use grids sometimes," the AisleOne article says "use grids all the time" and I'm sorry but that's just totally false. There are millions and millions of examples of successful design that don't use grids at all.
- ukit0
It doesn't say that at all fresnobob. Just says that some form of grid can be used in any application, not that it necessarily should be.
Maybe we agree because I thought Peter Crnokrak's comment was on the right track:
"The greatest impediment to the use of grid systems is the inherent misconception that they determine the design being created. Grids are nothing more than a guide by which graphic layouts can be quickly achieved. Ultimately the human eye (perceptual) and the manner in which our brain associates form (cognitive) determine whether a design is aesthetically pleasing. The proof of this is the well-know practice of optically correcting a mechanical layout. If grid systems were the be-all and end-all means by which to design, there would be no need for adept designers to “clean up” layouts. Optical corrections to layouts (balances of form and space) are needed as graphic form relationships are so complex that a mechanical grid layout is simply too coarse to properly deal with content. Using only grids to design is like using an AK-47 to hunt rabbits – you’ll get the job done, but it’s not going to be pretty."
For me, though, trying to articulate this in the pages of Web Designer Depot might also be overkill. Let's face it, for a student, it's much better for them to overlearn the right lessons instead of learning the complete wrong ones;)
As far as the book page canon, clearly it was the precursor of a more formalized grid layout. Tomato, tomato.
- Also, keep in mind we're talking mainly about web design here - where use of some kind of grid is almost unavoidableukit
- fresnobob0
I do agree with you, coming from AisleOne though I do think though that it was being implied a grid should be used always. Just as we can assume based on how the Depot article was presented their knowledge and breadth of design, we can assume the same things from AisleOne.
AisleOne is clearly a better resource to learn about design than Webdesigners Depot. I guess to me though I feel like the Depot article was about a style and the AisleOne article tried to refute it only with substance. What we want as designers is the harmony of both.
And, I know the canon was the precursor to the grid, but thats more of an ape/human comparison.
- ukit0
Yeah I am not all that familiar with this Aisle One. Perhaps they are assholes. Just saying I'll happily take their opinion over that of the other anytime.
I think you might be interpreting the concept of a grid a bit too strictly though - isn't really it just a series of horizontal and vertical measurements made to impose order over a design? If you take that meaning then, it's application to web design does seem more or less universal - it's hard to think of a scenario where one wouldn't want to use consistent measurements from page to page. So in some ways, saying a grid is good or bad or that it's good for some websites but not others doesn't make much sense.
- fresnobob0
Yeah, that's definitely a grid, but in order to design within a grid, the grid must exist first and consciously, otherwise its just something someone perceived later. Its like these things to show how art uses the golden section:
Yeah, its possible the artist used those lines there first to compose his painting, but way more likely that was naturally how he did it. He didn't use a grid, but one was perceived later to show order. I remember trying to analyze some of Jan Tschichold's (New Typography style) work for a grid and not being able to find one because he didn't use one. He just lined things up in a pleasing way. That to me does not constitute a grid. I think making information legible is making information legible regardless of how gridded out" it may be.
I don't think AisleOne are assholes at all, but I do think that in the same way the Webdesigner Depot has their narrow viewpoint, so does AisleOne, only theirs happens too be in the realm of the grid.
- ukit0
Good discussion fresnobob. Clearly different forms of art and design require different approaches. The medium you are showing above isn't one where I would necessarily expect a grid to be used, although it could be.
I was thinking more in terms of web design - where obviously some parallels can be drawn to art and print work but also with industrial and product design. Just as it would be a silly to design a car while using no measurements, it's a little hard for me to think of why you would approach a website that way. We could pick out examples of offbeat sites that use a more painterly approach, but it seems to me that they tend to improvise around the grid rather than ignoring it entirely.
- utopian0
Less = More
- fresnobob0
Yeah, I have to admit I that the web is pretty reliant on grids. I can't think of much non-grid based web design since Flash was en vogue, but I suppose then that is saying something about how grids could be considered a trend. I guess though that that fell out of style because people got sick of wading through all the extra b.s. you had to sit through to get to the information, and thats kind of a major reason why a grid should be used in the first place.
I think a lot of the web's use of grids is based on how a web page is constructed. The whole programming thing is more or less a really complex grid based on the pixel unit and that doesn't apply so much to things like print, but I still think that while most uses of the web should have some sort of grid, it still doesn't mean that its always appropriate. I think it would be very possible to design (for example) for the web using classical design principles that are not grid based and could still function, but then again that just breaks it down to a style and not a complete necessity.
- rupedixon0
*bump
Really surprised this thread didn't last longer......
- jimzyk0
IF YOU LIKE IT, THEN YOU SHOULD HAVE PUT A GRID ON IT