Printing Costs in Proposal?
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- monkeyshine
Would you ever include printing quotes in a proposal for print design work? I never have and now have a prospective client who wants "hard numbers" for a brochure and an annual report...both of which need to be "high design" and unique, etc...
I told him that I can't get printing quotes until we understand the creative strategy and exactly what these pieces will be (varnish, size, folds, die cuts, etc...). I just got a lecture about how he has always bid printing BEFORE designing and why can't I make some assumptions and get some loose numbers, etc.
Am I being bull headed? First off, I don't want to be limited by some arbitrary printing price that may or may not have anything to do with what we decide to create; and secondly, I really don't want to spend hours getting arbitrary printing quotes when the client hasn't even signed a contract with me.
- sublocked0
I've never run into it myself, but a lot of people seem to work that way.
I get tons of requests from designers who want to incorporate costs into their estimates/invoices, then charge a markup on that for convenience. Printing comes up a lot, as does coding services.
Just getting around to implementing that in my app now ( http://www.getcashboard.com/ )
Don't know if that helps or not... :p
- cashboard is your creation? nice!monkeyshine
- yessir, thanks :)sublocked
- you making a decent living out of that?Terminal27
- monkeyshine0
thanks. I have no problem getting printing quotes but I'd like to know what the hell I'm quoting for first...at least an idea of a few concepts that I can take back to the client to see how far they want to go before we choose a conceptual direction. But it seems crazy to me to get printing quotes out of context of a conceptual/creative strategy.
- I totally agree with you. Interested to see what others have to say on the topic...sublocked
- ximeraLabs0
You can always get ballpark print quotes including special inks, folding etc, so you can give the client a rough estimate saying "X copies with spot varnish and die cut =$$$, just varnish =$$ etc
- gramme0
For most clients, I've been learning the hard way that I can't do work beyond writing proposals without getting paid. Writing print specs for an annual report can be a complicated affair, and it can be time-consuming to gather bids from 2–3 different printers. And like you said, there's no guarantee that you've got the work.
Do the following if you really want the job. If you're friendly with any printers in town, call them up and give them as much details as you can. Ask them for a ballpark figure. Your potential client needs to at least get off his high horse for long enough to give you some quantity options. You can't just make up a number, b/c it could be anything from 500 to 50,000 or more. From there, if you really want the job, you can make assumptions... say, perfect bound, 80 pp., gatefold cover, 7"x10", #1 coated and uncoated papers mixed throughout, 6/6. Don't worry about whether you'll do any special effects yet. Again, just ask one single printer for a ballpark price. This is really just to help your client figure out the budget, even if it's as loose as $30,000–$50,000.
Then after you get the contract signed, create a thumbnail storyboard for the AR in conjunction with your writer. This will help you nail down pagination, flow, and any mixing of paper stocks. Working at this macro level for a multi-page print piece helps you avoid stupid mistakes with how forms should be set up, and you can see at a glance how things flow. At that point you can make some more educated decisions and get a few real quotes.
- It's almost akin to spec work, but every industry does something for free with the knowledge it won't always pay offAmicus
- Amicus0
^ what gramme said in the last two para's. It'll get him off your back with a minimum of fuss. Just make sure to include your markup on the print cost – for a ball park I'd say add 25% or more.
- Do you usually show your markup % to the client, or keep that hidden?sublocked
- I have never shown the mark up to client. Do any of you?monkeyshine
- keep it hidden. Either pay for the printing and charge the client or have the printer add the markup to their total and they pay you back.capn_ron
- pay you back via check.capn_ron
- hidden. Its part of your fee for handling the artworking, supply of files, proofing etc.shitehawke
- vaxorcist0
Prospective client is asking for "hard numbers" ... indicating that he/she felt surprised, or ripped off in the past.... so you might ask about previous situations they've been in, establish some trust, make it clear that there are options and that you're not going to markup more than X percent, and that if they have a budget, you can certainly work with it in the design phase, so you don't do die cuts that cost $$$, etc....
Also indicate you have good relations with printers, so they don't give you "off the street" pricing, but you need to have more specifics to get a solid price, but client can rest assured that the printer's price is predictable.
- gramme0
Why mark up? I've never understood that practice. It doesn't really seem to be based on getting paid for services rendered, like everything else we do. You get paid for design a print supervision, the printer gets paid for printing. Each entity gets their fee for their services. Call it a day.
- dibec0
separate for me. here is why ... if the print goes to hell for whatever reason it's on you. not to say we live in a perfect world, but if you bill as one, it's on you and if the print house goes Jack and Jill on the print job because you are trying to make that extra cut ... well Jack you get Jilled.
- monkeyshine0
thanks for the feedback. This is very helpful.
- vaxorcist0
dibec's right, I once worked for an agency where ALL print jobs were on the client's bill, with no markup, and the client had to approve right before printing. This is due to a dispute in the past over a print job with problems through miscommunication that cost $$$$. The agency decided the markup wasn't worth the risk of eating the cost of a reprint...
- gramme0
^ what vaxorcist said.