US Auto bailout rejected
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- BonSeff0
http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/12/12…
Fewer than half of the parts on some Big Three vehicles are made in the U.S.
Looking at a Ford Fusion? It is assembled in Mexico. The Chrysler 300C is assembled in Canada, but its transmission is from Indiana; the brand's V-8 engine is made in Mexico. Engines in the Chevrolet Equinox sport utility vehicle are from China.
On the other hand, Toyota's Camry is comprised 80 percent of parts made in the United States, and 56 percent of Toyota's vehicles sold in the U.S. also are made here, according to Toyota spokeswoman Sona Iliffe-Moon.
The Toyota Sienna and Tundra also have 80 percent of their parts manufactured in the U.S.
- TheBlueOne0
I completely forget the big three are also tied up with billions in financing and credit...which is probably another reason why they are fucked...
- ETM0
GM is Opel and Holden in Europe and Australia. More jobs gone.
- ETM0
Maybe the whole 2012 enlightenment thing IS gonna happen as we all become homeless and penniless looking for some sort of purpose.
- Lets all hold hands and sing Kumbaya.ETM
- do you have a lyric sheet?TheBlueOne
- i can play the triangle.SteveJobs
- Why, here are the lyrics:
http://en.wikipedia.…ETM - ...and I can play the spoons. Hoedown anyone?ETM
- I so into that actually happening. Then instead of fighting each other, we can worry about problem #1 -- our planet's survivability.dMullins
- ...planet's survivability.dMullins
- JSK0
UAW workers make $70 per hour
Foreign car worker in US make $45 pre hourAlso, there is legacy of retired workers who still get paid.
Thats where the money goes. And they refuse to cut any.- They don't make $70 an hour. Stop with the rightwing propaganda.TheBlueOne
- http://www.huffingto…TheBlueOne
- ETM0
They make $70 per hour because so much goes back to the union coffers. That's why I said earlier they need to find a legal way to shed the union. It's an outdated concept for today. And yes, the union needs to pony up and help as well or wither and die with the Big 3.
- TheBlueOne0
$70 an Hour Myth: "it's a conservative myth concocted by totaling all wages, plus health and benefit costs to current workers and 450,000 retirees and their families -- and then deceptively dividing that huge total payout by the number of current UAW workers, about 140,000 in Detroit."
If you hate Unions, fine. At least be honest about it and don't regurgitate lies to back up our policy ideas. That's how we got into this mess in te first place, by falsely inflating values.
- It is a generalization. But they do make more an hour than non-union.. much of which goes back to the union.ETM
- JIBHUNTNYC0
Yeah,
Merge the companies.
I would buy a Forvolhumlertiac.
- JSK0
I hate the unions. I had too many beers cans in my car door left and enclosed in. And got charged to remove the beer cans. The last time I bought a GM car.
I always thought that NY Times was left to the left.
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/1…
"But the cuts did not affect most long-time union members, whose hourly pay and compensation is about $55 an hour. The figure ranges above $70 an hour when the automakers’ costs for health care for retired workers and retirement benefits is factored in."
- TheBlueOne0
What is the average hourly pay for an employee of AIG, Citibank, et al. just ot of curiosity - anyone have those figures to compare? Hmmm? And I don't remember any media coverage about asking the bank and financial workers to take a paycut before they got trillions of bucks from the taxpayers so their industry could stay afloat.
- $150/hour + soulsdesignbot
- ...and also their first born.ETM
- It's the souls part that gets ya, don't it :)TheBlueOne
- haha :)designbot
- ETM0
@TheBlueOne That's a great question. I guess the finance companies do more to scratch the politicians backs than the automakers. That's what it comes down to.
- Well, it is a bit disingenuous of me...it's comparing apples to oranges and I'm aware of it..just making a point though.TheBlueOne
- No, but there is a point to be made there.ETM
- bankiers know how to make money, auto employees cost moneykeiTai
- If that was true they wouldn't have needed a bailout! :)ETM
- I agree, you pose a valid point.dMullins
- JSK0
The difference is that financial system is critical to our viability. Not just US but the world. As banks fail, there is no alternative source to deal with. Since all banks do is lend money to one another.
The wages are not even comparison. Its like saying complaining that shoes sales man makes less money then a designer. Different job and different educational value.
Auto makers, while they share plants for parts, there are other players in the game to take over the slacks. The productivity is not ideal in union base. The cost is higher and get crap cars.
- Yes, and the bank bailout has failed. Period. Credit did not and is not bout to loosen up.TheBlueOne
- JSK0
You know, I would think that GOP would jump to help the auto since they run on oil. More cars, more oil.
- JSK0
Also, this is not the first time that government bailed out a finance company because of detrimental effect that it would cause globally.
Long-Term Capital Management
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lon…
- TheBlueOne0
"The wages are not even comparison. Its like saying complaining that shoes sales man makes less money then a designer. Different job and different educational value."
True as far as it goes - but if your going to bailout designers and shoe salesmen alike, wouldn't you expect a proportional level of concession from both in each respective industry? Or should designers just get the money with no demands, but shoe salesmen should be forced to work longer hours for less pay to get the money?
- JSK0
Yes, and the bank bailout has failed. Period. Credit did not and is not bout to loosen up.
- TheBlueOneOf course! It was designed to not work. Who in their right mind, pumps more money in to something that doesnt make money or system that doesnt work. It sure sounds good to boost the stock price or keep it from going to the bottom. It's just like that economic stimulus checks. Giving few hundred dollars to joe six pack do nothing.
And now they are printing money, and draining the dollar value.
- http://firedoglake.c…TheBlueOne
- I read the stimulus checks actually worked somewhat.Mimio
- Worked for me. I paid bills and didn't blow it like most schmucks.dMullins
- TheBlueOne0
And don't take my arguments as supportive per se of the UAW which is a corrupt shitty union that deserves whatever it gets, although I am not anti-labor in general, hisorically speaking.
- ETM0
Only a stray musing... but if they go under, do you think car thefts will go through the roof? Think about it. Crime in general always rises sharply in bad economic times. As well, people will be looking to repair rather than buy new as money is tight. But many parts makers may go under, and there will be a shortage. So a lot of people will need hard to find parts which will make them expensive. What better than steal and chop domestic cars then? Also, so many desperate, out of work auto workers... who better to know how to steal and chop a car than those who build them? Plus think of the black market as people who need their domestic car repaired just can't afford it done through proper channels or sources.
Like I said, just a stray musing.
- JSK0
I am for bailing auto companies out BUT they have to be competitive, get rid of unions or at least reduce their strong hold.
BUT the root of problems lie with in the company it self. They make crap products. Crap design. Crap marketing. Change indeed is a good thing. But giving them money wont change anything. They will just ask for more like AIG.
Lee Iacocca borrowed and paid the government back. But the current company is not even close of being what it used to be.