dreamweaver cs4
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- Llyod
does it crank out css automatically like it does tables?
- airey0
how could it? tables are just the same thing with variables (row, col, padding, etc) whereas css is a language.
it's better with it's use of css than cs3 was (as far as understanding and previewing) but it's not so different that cs4 is a must have upgrade for this alone.
my 2cents. i'm probably wrong.
- boobs0
Does the FTP in it work?
- airey0
yep. although i've never actually had too many issues with the FTP and i've been using it for the last 8 years. the whole passive vs. non-passive connections still need checking and i have absolutely no idea what it even means (and am yet to find an article that explains it very well to a moron like myself).
the few problems i have had with the FTP have been with clients i sub-host through my mediatemple account. if i use a base login and work through to the correct domain it's all good but if i use a client ftp login it does have issues. i figure it's user error my end rather than the app.
- kerus0
dreamweaver cs3 = garage
dreamweaver cs4 = garbage
dreamweaver cs*= garbagethere is a pattern
- Llyod0
so I want to know why you can't draw out a grid and DW will write out the divs. if not what's the point of dreamweaver? (in regards to modern css design)
- I don't understand the question, it has templates with divs you can fuck about with.Jnr_Madison
- I don't want to use templates. I want to draw some rectangles on the screen and have dw write the cssLlyod
- Divs and tables are not the same. Stop trying to compare them directly.ETM
- airey0
llyod, just find a developer / web-builder to work with. presently if you haven't got the time or inclination to learn css and more advanced web work than just drawing shapes and the app doing the grunt work then you're wasting your time.
still, what you're after will only be a short time away so you might get your wish sooner than we would expect. maybe.
- alicetheblue0
oh ... its a Llyod thread .....
- airey0
the problems is that things like tables are set snippets which allow you to change limited variables. even so, some apps that allow automatic coding create a huge amount of extra crap that if you did the coding yourself wouldn't happen. this was made most obvious by GoLive with it's 'build on a grid' ability that basically created so many nested tables it was frightening.
css can be anything - that's the whole point, so for an app to create auto css based on some vague directions would be against the nature of css. it would have to include so much guff and crap that the beauty, speed and size of good css would be blown out the window. i mean the whole IE margin/padding bug would be more of a pain in the arse that llyod's threads.
- airey0
also, people need to pull the stick out of their arse about dreamweaver. it's a good app. granted it's css previewing isn't as good as some other apps but either are the browsers showing the work online - which is why you need to preview in so many setups during development.
i've now worked with a lot of developers and have to say, the choice of tool they use has had no baring on the quality of work. the line of thought that 'i don't use dreamweaver but coda / notepad / whatever so am an expert" has made me laugh my balls off. in fact a few developers out there would be doing themselves favours using a more regimented tool.
my 2 cents.
- excepting of course the FTP problems a lot of peeps mention.airey
- ukit0
I guess when it comes down to it, there just isn't a very good way to create WYSIWYG code - it's just a challenge that technology hasn't quite mastered yet.
But as a code management tool, Dreamweaver is just as good as a lot of other tools out there. That's mainly what I use it for.
- kerus0
when dreamweaver can read minds it will be a great tool. until then it just does guesswork for what it thinks you are trying to do. im a very much not a fan of writing code that way. there is truth to it being as good as the user, and if you need to use it... well you get my drift..
just my additional 3 cents.- fuck, if i could read my own mind i'd be happy let alone some random app!airey
- airey0
also, just felt i needed to rant.
the bloated code angle is an interesting one. dreamweaver adds absolutely no more code to your css than you make it. if you go with inherited values then it's more a user managed issue that a dw created one.
as for bloated code/files i actually wonder why this is the argument / point that people make it. i've been designing and building webpages since 1996 and that was when 14.4k modems were standard (and as good as it got). when you wanted a page to load quickly on a 14.4k modem you really had to squish filesize. it sucked. badly. i even used the <blink> tag for visual interest. i'm embarrassed even now. luckily my crimes against mankind have got worse since to cover it.
so here we are with 'in general terms' broadband being standard. not always, but for the majority of my clients/target market it is. we're using flash based online video and youtube is a useful tool. through all this some designers still think that saving 5k on a page load could mean shit. it doesn't. it means diddley-squat. it's solely the realm of complete OCD sufferers to think it could matter. and then, which makes it even sadder, you get the comment, "well that 5k a page really adds up on a huge website". maybe. maybe that would matter if the user was loading every single webpage on your site at once. but they aint. i spent 2 hours going through a css sheet with a developer and after all that the filesize was 12k smaller. i want my 2 fucking hours back and that developer needs either a girlfriend, a hobby or a gun.
so although i theory i totally support cleaner code and smaller page/file size, unless the target audience is specifically operating from a small coconut-oil driven commodore 64 on a pacific island, population: 5, it may in fact not be the most important issue when talking web design. crazy things like the navigation actually appearing in all major browsers or small things like that might be more important.
my 1.3 cents. i could be wrong.
- creez0
is the DW ftp slow?
- modern0
Get Textmate and an FTP client for god sake
STOP GIVING MONEY TO THAT INCOMPETENT DREAMWEAVER DEV TEAM
- modern0
I understand some of you just use DW as a text editor but WHY? Its a terrible text editor, absolute garbage compared to contemporary efforts and even compared to ancient shit like vi and emacs
WYSIWYG does not exist in wed development