If I were a cop
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- ********0
vrmbr, i think you dropped this.
- detritus0
This reminds me of Superman II - a parable of the supposed inherent virtue of The American Way.
Superman loses his powers and is beaten up in a roadside diner. On regaining his powers and defeating the forces of evil, what does he do? Returns to the diner to beat the living shit out of an old drunk.
My hero.
America, if you want a reason for why your society is eating itself, look no further than the petty vengeance called for in this thread and the responses to its criticism by a couple of your more retarded countryfolk.
Way to go Christianity, Judaism, Higher Truth, you've come so far.
- vrmbr0
oh well, there's also a reason why America is more religion induced then any other country in the world. (I got this from a scientific publication).
I do not dislike America, but I have a sound dose of scepticism in their vision of what is right.
- ********0
@detritus wow you're so enlightened.......... :p
give me a fucking break. obviously "the court system" was not a proper deterrent to these inbred fucks.
- Is the emoticon a sarcasm indicator? Thanks for the heads'up, I was veh nearly about to take the compliment.detritus
- vrmbr didn't seem to get it, so i figured i'd help you as well********
- detritus0
Why is everything about 'deterrents' with you guys? Shock and Awe. Retribution. Revenge. etcetera, etcetera.
Your (..and, don't get me wrong - mine too..) society is inherently fucked if it has to rely extremes of prejudice to effect any kind of order or restraint amongst its population.
THAT'S the problem. Vengeance can only serve to further undermine the legitimacy of the ordering structures (hence why capital punishment isn't the best idea, although I do sometimes feel I agree with it, but hey, I'm pretty ignorant too).
What was it that famous Indian guy said - "An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind"? Or that other, Jewish (later Christian) guy - "Turn the other cheek"?
I'm pretty sure that, if a society claims to be founded on such enlightened structures, going back on them only undermines it.
i dunno - you're obviously a pretty together guy, so I'll just trust your snap judgement.
- no fair playing both sides of the Christianity card. pick one or the other.********
- Whence this other side you speak of? I've only referred to one side - the forgiving one?detritus
- 2 posts above "Way to go Christianity, Judaism, Higher Truth, you've come so far."********
- Yes? What I mean is - they've been saying 'forgive, forget' for 2k+ years, and where lie those mores now? In the gutter.detritus
- What I meant was to be dismayed at how easily their core lessons are forgotten in the face of vengeful gratification.detritus
- ..retribution.detritus
- all americans aren't christians...and a lot that claim to be are "fake" christians imho.********
- Fair enough, but our shared value system supposedly comes from Christianity. I'm no religionist, but I buy the lessondetritus
- no fair playing both sides of the Christianity card. pick one or the other.
- detritus0
I wish I could find it, but there was an article I read years ago, comparing the infamous (here in Blighty, anyway) case of young Jamie Bulger, who was killed, quite grisly as it happens, by two pre-adolescent kids.
Around the same time, there was a similar case in Sweden (I think - Scandinavia, anyway) where a young kid was killed by two older kids.
The difference in response was the telling factor - here, our tabloids screamed for revenge, retribution - for blood, for vengeance. There, it barely made the news. The offending kids were taken into care and given counselling. The parents of the victim were likewise counselled and made aware of all the facets of the investigation. Here, the two offenders were vilified, locked up, without counsel or assistance.
5 years afterwards, here in Blighty, we were still hung up on it, still trying to track down these kids - when, 10 years (or whatever) after, they were finally released, the tabloids began screaming again, trying to unmask their contemporary identity and the whole thing was dredged up - and for what? Who gains? What benefit?
Whilst in Scandinavia, the offending kids were given a new lease of life, nothing more was said and people were able to get back on with their lives. Now, of course the parents of the murdered kids would still feel bad - but, treated appropriately, so would the offenders - it's not like they'll ever forget what the did - but, fact is, they were kids - there were mitigating circumstances, which were accounted for, a resolution attempted and society as a whole, allowed to get back on with itself.
You mock European pussiness, which is sad, because the future will mock you.
- Jaline0
subimage, what makes you different from the sickos if you did the same thing to them what they did to others?
genuine question.
I suppose you will say intention.
- Jaline0
and intention has been better explained (somewhat) by detritus, above.
- vrmbr0
good example, detritus.
it is the whole lack of belief in a justice system and let emotions rule a society that drags that very same society in a downward spiral of violence and retribution. this is why for instance, the Dutch justice system does not take the US way of reasoning as a sound example.
- ********0
@detritus.....
Flawed logic and doublespeak all over what you're saying... Tried to respond in comments but this will be more succinct.
1: You're playing both sides of the Christianity card. On one hand you mock it and other religions, then on the other you hold it up as support for your argument. Pick a side.
2: So you're saying with a little counseling that everything is cool? Just forgive and forget? Let out Charlie Manson, the Menendez brothers, etc? It's all good, right? Turn the other cheek. Let em murder again, as long as they feel "bad" about it.
3: Obviously you _don't_ get sarcasm, because you'll see what I wrote re: "European pussiness" was in direct response to a blanket statement about Americans. But that's cool right? It's all good to make blanket statements about Americans, but not Europeans...Oh I get it now, thanks for clearing that up.
- _eh_0
With a video game in a previous thread about killing bums it's no wonder things like this go on. Very sad.
- vrmbr0
"2: So you're saying with a little counseling that everything is cool? Just forgive and forget? Let out Charlie Manson, the Menendez brothers, etc? It's all good, right? Turn the other cheek. Let em murder again, as long as they feel "bad" about it."
You are so far away from reality. We actually do lock up the extremes.
But kids, no.
The US system does even lock up 13 year old kids for life. that is pure barbarism.
Anyway, knowing from experience here is that comparisons of our Justice systems is like talking about religion. It never gets anywhere.
- ********0
Look, I'm definitely not defending the US justice system here, just having a discussion about different viewpoints.
The US justice system has MANY flaws, many I've experienced first-hand. I'm definitely not a fan of locking up nonviolent offenders infinitely, "the war on drugs", and related crimes.
But - insane, out of bounds, cruel crimes like the topic of this thread. Yes, I believe the punishment should fit the crime.
- detritus0
1) So I can't agree with the value benefits of various religions yet not respect the core supernatural beliefs? OK. I guess I'll write off all Western civilisation too then.
2) No, I'm suggesting that morally-centred treatment's a better recourse than petty vengeance. You'd off all those people immediately - whereas culpability probably only lies on the heads of two or three of the offenders. Even then, I'm not for one minute suggesting they should be immediately released into society - but conversely, I'd not support their eradication from it.
3) a) that's not really relevant, but hey, if it makes you feel better, go for it. b) Yours wasn't sarcasm, just a childish jibe. c) What has what vrmbr said got to do with me?- seriously are you high? you wrote "You mock European pussiness, which is sad, because the future will mock you."********
- you." .....that's what it has to do with you.********
- Forget 1) here - I misunderstood what you meant - see notes above.detritus
- 3) You might have a point if what you said was actually sarcasm. Sadly, it wasn't.detritus
- yeah, you really know what i meant better than me right?********
- seriously are you high? you wrote "You mock European pussiness, which is sad, because the future will mock you."
- chossy0
I am going to say this.
See look I'm doing it.
We have a responsibily as humans to help people reform and to become better people, however we also as humans have a resposibility to punish, now in my opinion punishment for these people should simply be they get put in jail forever with no possibility of parole.
- moogoo0
wtf, is happening to people in this day and age. these people make me sick.
- mrdobolina0
make a reality show out of it!
