Anti-Rand
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- NeinPattern0
I'm bitter and jaded, that is plainly obvious...
But at what point exactly, during the process of arranging other people's Photos, placing other people's writing, decorating other people's Videos, using other people's music, and promoting other people's ideas...do you realize to yourself....why aren't I creating instead of regurgitating? Why can't I grow something beautiful, instead of eating, throwing up, and eating beautiful things again before I shit out as that wonderful substance we call "Design"?
I've hit that point. And my shit DOES stink.
- gramme0
I'll be the first to say that much of the work I generate is more or less devoid of real value...though I still consider myself blessed that I get to work for people I respect, on projects that are engaging. I like working for our clients, they're nice people and for the most part understand what design can do when given its proper place.
The fact that there are still people working out there like Sagmeister who maintain a hopeful outlook about design and its worth is reassuring.
Everyone contributing to this thread is an idealist, otherwise we wouldn't waste our time discussing design philosophy and function.
I guess what it comes down to is what engages you. That's different for each of us.
- menos0
Nein,
that's the point many designers get the money they made regurgitating and make their own projects out of the blue, follow their life long design dreams or just chill out for a while...
have you never heard people saying that they do commercial work only to be able to fund their personal stuff? (which at this stage, could be considered slightly arty)
- gramme0
I guess at my current job, I get to add enough of my own content to make it worthwhile. Especially when working at the strategy level. Also, I have accepted the fact that I work in a service industry. I think it builds character. I know accomplished designers who are high on their own assholes, and others that are pleasant, humble people. It seems that the humble ones have a healthier grasp on what design is and what it is not (read: it is not self-expression for that sake only).
- studderine0
yea, you know what npattern, fuck design. yea fuck some of the most important signage that ANYONE from almost any cultural background can understand just by looking at it. yea, thats useless. information design.
- ukit0
Let's face it, if "pure" art was the only valid way for anyone to live their life we would all be sitting in mud huts making finger paintings with our own feces.
- studderine0
i dont know, i'm not a designer per say, and i am not an artist. maybe my opinions don't matter.
- ********0
art i about teh information it contains or refers to. Something that tells you how to get get point a to point b is useful but not art, or not very accomplished art. A label isn't a caption and since we have eliminated dmost all signifiers in our art a title or caption is practically the only way for art to convey meaning.
- gramme0
The glaring problem in this thread is that nobody has clearly defined "art". Therefore we are chasing our tails trying to credit or discredit design, until we have something clear and concrete for comparison.
Webster's definition:
"The expression or application of human creative skill and imagination, typically in a visual form such as painting or sculpture, producing works to be appreciated primarily for their beauty or emotional power."
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When design is at it's best, it accomplishes the above. It uses beauty to move the viewer. Think of a beautiful book on cartography. Think of the online portfolio of an accomplished photographer (a project I recently have worked on and found very rewarding in and of itself). So what if many think the thing people are being moved to do or think is banal. Perhaps, more often than not, this is the case. Nevertheless, design can and often does rise to the level of art, if the above definition is to be trusted at all.
You have all probably heard the phrase "art for art's sake." The meaning of this phrase it that the only aim of a work of art is the self expression of the individual artist who created the piece. The problem with such a concept is that it automatically negates the artistic value of the majority of what we consider art. Forget the Sistine chapel. Forget anything created by Rembrandt, Da Vinci, Monet, Constable, etc. etc. It's all trash, since the majority of work created by the above-mentioned was done for paying clients, often beginning with a commission rather than a purchase after the fact.
The concept of "art for art's sake" is a 20th century construction, a product of modernist, individualistic thought. It flies in the face of centuries of community-first living, in which every person who walked around fed and clothed did work of some sort.
I am proud of the fact that graphic design has not been entirely destroyed by the "art for art's sake" adherents. I believe that it is possible to create art or design that both fulfills one's personal aesthetic and conceptual desires, as well as fulfilling the needs of our clients. It doesn't happen often, but it happens often enough that I for one have not yet lost hope for a meaningful career.
- ********0
It flies in the face of centuries of community-first living, in which every person who walked around fed and clothed did work of some sort.
serfs, peasants, slaves
- ********0
if the above definition is to be trusted at all...
no. it's facile and
- menos0
to add to the pan:
from the CRblog at
http://www.creativereview.co.uk/…
"On the distinctions between graphic design and contemporary fine art
Peter Saville: ...and this is the point in which fine art and late 20th century applied art diverge completely. In the applied arts we learn to please people, we learn strategies of pleasing others. Pleasing yourself or expressing yourself, the confessing self, is not pertinent within the applied arts. It might be terribly interesting but it’s not exactly what we’re looking for. The prevailing condition within the applied arts is also to make things look good. Things that look good tend to be familiar – things tend not to look good until we are to some extent familiar with them. We see this in the culture of design all the time, what was radical 20 years ago and received with shock, we now see as kind of easy on the eye."
- neue75_bold0
crotch-maivens and one-night lays...
- gramme0
It flies in the face of centuries of community-first living, in which every person who walked around fed and clothed did work of some sort.
Carpenters, painters, sculptors, writers, printers, musicians, designers and architects.
capsize
(Nov 14 07, 06:31)
- gramme0
@ capsize:
...facile and what?
I recognize that this centuries-old argument is probably a waste of time. Nobody's life is hanging in the balance while we try to define the parameters of art (should art have parameters??).
- ********0
art kills death, everything else is shit.
- gramme0
hm. Profound //
- ********0
yep
- ********0
and deep.
- ********0
It flies in the face of centuries of community-first living, in which every person who walked around fed and clothed did work of some sort.
serfs, peasants, slaves
capsize
(Nov 14 07, 06:31)