Writer's Strike

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  • jevad0

    I take back what I said earlier - if this fucks up getting LOST back on the air I will fly down there and throw fisticuffs!!!

    kidding.

  • harlequino0

    I will fly down there and throw fisticuffs!!!
    jevad
    (Nov 7 07, 12:39)

  • flashbender0

    Haha Jevad. I almost wrote something mocking you until I saw the "kidding"

    Reading Is FUNdamental.

  • dskz0

    Go Writers!

  • rafalski0

    *any* organized, unionized strike of labor in this country is the BEST thing that can ever happen. period.
    madirish
    (Nov 7 07, 11:53)

    wow. i think that's the first statement from you that i completely disagree with :)
    subversve
    (Nov 7 07, 12:00)

    +1 subversve

    At least in the US it is civilized - those are negotiations. In Europe employees may sabotage your business, derail it and you still have to pay them for the time they weren't working and cannot fire them. This is beyond ridiculous.

  • Ramanisky20

    writers ... really ?

    I thought it was manatee's who wrote those shows

  • madirish0

    not in any way is this "is beyond ridiculous." what i, and the overwhelming majority of the world would feel is "beyond ridiculous" would be the centrist-driven, market-idealizing, false economy of monies, demands and empire that this country has created under the quieted, exploited and overall derailment of all labor valuation, here and abroad. that is actually *fucking* "beyond ridiculous" in my view.

    how in what way, has U.S. corporate america and gov't post say.... 1890 EVER dealt with labor rights, fair 'market' value, or prosperity? i actually think your european example is prime for a more 'civilized' way of taking back what is the sweat of it in the first place. although, South America might be a more atune example.

  • rylamar0

    I thought this would mean that more TV viewers may discover those things called books and actually read them.

    Then I realized the ONLY way many people today will read a book is if there is a reality show where celebrities take turns reading a book to the viewers and we call/text in and vote who did the best job and then give 1 person the boot each week.

  • wunderbra0

  • Llyod0

    we need more wrestling pictures!

  • paraselene0

    it's definitely thrown a spanner in the works here. we're working on stuff with presumed new year deadlines that, in all likelihood, won't go out until march at the earliest.

    and apparently it's not that the 'comedians' can't write their own jokes, but they prefer not to as a show of solidarity with the writers.

  • rafalski0

    actually think your european example is prime for a more 'civilized' way of taking back what is the sweat of it in the first place. although, South America might be a more atune example.
    madirish
    (Nov 7 07, 13:44)

    It probably depends on the way you look at things. I treat work as a deal between adults: the employer has things that he needs done, I do them for a specified amount of money on a daily basis. We have a steady contract. Simple. If I feel underpaid, I go and renegotiate or go somewhere else where they will pay me more if my work is worth it for them. I can arrange with other employees who feel the same to negotiate as a group, that gives us extra leverage and strengtens our negotiation stance. That all seems fair. In a very rare situation, to put extra pressure on the employer, we possibly may go on a strike if we feel strong enough. This gets serious now, because if we don't work, employer loses money, misses deadlines, that could fuck him up and he has way more to lose than we do. In this case, it is understandable for me that we can all get fired and replaced. But in majority of such cases employer would rather negotiate and reach an agreement. Nevertheless I would not expect to be paid for the time we were on strike (unless we negotiate otherwise) and I'd avoid causing them loss. I am not sure how it works in the US, but in EU you cannot lay off people who go on strike and sabotage your business. You have to pay them for the strike. You cannot replace them in order to keep your business running, the law allows them to terrorize you like that. You're stuck with them and they dictate whilst ruining you. It is not a deal between adults, you as an employer have to be a kindergarten for your employees. There are countries like France, where work is not a deal, it is a human right. To fire an employee is a costly procedure, so you're likely to keep an employee even if he doesn't work effectively. That is bad business and French economy reflects that. Now with the new treaty and EU charter of rights coming, it goes towards this direction in all of EU.
    I might sound like an ultraconservative to some here, but at least my actions are aligned with my opinions. I have moved to the country with probably the least work protection laws in the old (first 15) EU countries. Ireland used to be a poor country paralyzed by trade unions and high taxes until they came to their senses, held unions back and lowered taxes. This worked amazingly and Irish economy is doing great now. Unemployment is hardly an issue and jobs are way better paid than in a lot of the EU.
    I work for a company, so one might think work protection, unions and so on would only be good for me. I say these are bad for the workforce. Easy firing is good, because it means easy hiring. I wrote it many times before, I once got fired in Ireland and jobless as I was I went for a planned trip to Paris. There were thousands on the streets there, protesting against a law that would allow to fire people aged up to 26. I laughed looking at them, because I just got fired with a week's notice, was over 26 and was sure to get a new job soon unlike these poor French fellas who suffered unemployment and fought for a law that would ensure bigger unemployment. It was crazy. I went back to 'capitalist' Ireland and found a better job in no time.

    The US writers' strike situation however looks ok to me. That's negotiating and a lot of them take a huge risk by taking part in such a forceful move. That seems fair compared to workers terrorizing (mostly state) employers in Europe.

  • madirish0

    very good thoughts here raf, but coule of critical items need addressing, as locale might play a HUGE impact on your thoughts;
    "I treat work as a deal between adults: the employer has things that he needs done, I do them for a specified amount of money on a daily basis. We have a steady contract. Simple. If I feel underpaid, I go and renegotiate or go somewhere else where they will pay me more if my work is worth it for them."
    - this assumes that you are on an even keel and both sides have the same 'legal' groundwork to make this assumption from- read: corporate vs. individual structure w/in law system. in US it is far from even, it is frankly not in the same game, let along field.

    second, scale, population, and size of your surroundings might make this a HUGE difference as well. what if you were say, in the middle of the country and *only* outlet for you were in the ONE corp in town and to go to another (if you wanted or needed, doesn't matter) were hours away? practical? not in the least. this is the case for 85% of the labor force in the US. it has all but left major cities and what remains, is in small, rural areas outside any sort of diversified economy of scale to be able and leverage to just "go get another job elseware."

    "I am not sure how it works in the US, but in EU you cannot lay off people who go on strike and sabotage your business. You have to pay them for the strike. You cannot replace them in order to keep your business running, the law allows them to terrorize you like that."
    - and this way THE reason i said the EU might be a very aprpoe example as the very opposite is true in the US.
    - employer CAN fire (unless union sues them AFTER the strike)
    - pay while on strike? LOL
    - not replace? FFS man, this is the US, you are as valuble to me until i see someone better tomorrow.

    in a nutshell then; corporate legal and tax structure put about 90% of advantage in the corporations favor, with nothing but time, money and resources to over come it- something the 'labor' class does not have any of, especially in the US now, or for years prior. it is a joke and really, if countries in a 'democracy' think their structure is bad from the perspective of the labor class, please come read/study even a very topical view of the US position and it will make that where you are pale in comparison. oh, and read some Marx and come back to the table- he had it correct and will always. ;)

  • Jaline0

    and apparently it's not that the 'comedians' can't write their own jokes, but they prefer not to as a show of solidarity with the writers.

    paraselene
    (Nov 8 07, 01:02)

    yes, I think this goes for a lot of the involved parties.

    Some people refuse to cross picket lines, while others also want to show their support.

  • kelpie0

    right. not getting back into this with rafalski ;)

  • TheBlueOne0

    The Office writers explain things...

  • TheBlueOne0

    "If you know absolutely nothing about the issues — or if you have to explain it to your grandmother, who’s upset that her favorite soap opera is off the air — here’s my very short summary of the situation.

    *Writers for film and television are paid a small fee when the things they write (movies and television shows) are shown again on re-runs or DVD. These are called residuals, and they’re much like the royalties a novelist or a songwriter gets.

    *Residuals are a huge part of how writers are able stay in the business. These quarterly checks pay the mortgage, particularly between jobs.

    *There’s widespread belief that the rate paid to writers for DVD’s is too low. It was set 20 years ago, when DVD was a nascent and expensive technology. DVD’s are now cheap and hugely profitable, yet the rate remains fixed.

    *Downloads will eventually supplant DVD’s. That’s why it’s crucial to set a fair rate for them now, and avoid the same trap of “let’s wait and see.”

    *There are other creative and jurisdictional issues (such as animation and reality television) which are also on the table. According to the AMPTP, residuals are the major stumbling block, however."

    http://johnaugust.com/archives/2…

  • TheBlueOne0

    Interesting read on why TV is the way it is today:

    http://agonist.org/ian_welsh/200…

    kinda tangentially related to the strike stuff...

  • CHIPOTLE0

    do people still watch TV a lot? I cant think of much to watch outside of Poker After Dark

  • rafalski0

    Thanks for keeping it civilized madirish, I was afraid I'd started a nasty and useless flame, huh.

    Marx.. Oh my.. He sure predicted well that democracy inevitably evolves (degrades, some say) into socialism :)

    *puts a sticky on the monitor: "do not discuss politics, economy or F1 on internets"