Remove Table Guilt
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- ********
- sparker0
interesting.
although, this is a lot like continually scratching a bad rash. the more you scratch, the longer it takes to heal.
the longer people use tables for layout. the longer they avoid proper web markup techniques the longer we will have to deal with troublesome browsers.
starting building sites using standards and the browsers will follow.
there is enough wide spread support of opera and firefox now to begin phasing out antiquated design techniques.
we don't build cars like we did in 1950. why do we still build websites like it is 1995?
- ********0
It's a damn shame my company makes me design for the lowest common demoninator. Just 2 months ago I talked them into dropping Netscape 4 for God's sake.
I still have a ways to go before I can make full css work here. Ain't gonna happen anytime soon.
- Mimio0
Shit doesn't work 100% in IE 5.1 either. People don't upgrade their browser software independantly of their OS.
- ********0
mimio. you're telling me.
a boss a year or so back was bitching at me about not being able to see a piece i did. not only did he not have the flash plugin on his computer, but he was using ie 4 (this was less than a year ago) and 640x480 resolution on his old monitor.
i didnt stay at that place very long.
- Mimio0
Amazing...he probably stops his car with his feet and eats brontosaurus burgers.
- shaft0
Tables are good. They give solid grid. I never bought this "tables weren't meant for layout" babble.
A.G. Bell's hearing aid wasn't meant to be used as telephone either.
- spiralstarez0
CSS takes a long time to properly learn, but once I did I would never go back to tables.
CSS is also way faster loading, since for a table to render it has to download everything in the cells before displaying.
Not to mention huge bandwidth savings if you are on a big project.
- nRIK0
why doesnt every browser just render CSS elements like they are meant to be? make that at least a standard.. instead of us having to learn all these silly hacks..
then add w/e-tf these browsers want -- tabs, blah, etc
[someone had asked why do all CSS website layouts look like blogs? thats because thats all CSS usually can do, without it being incompatible on other platforms/browsers..]
- liquid0
I dont feel bad about using CSS for little things......and I dont feel bad about using tables for layout
make the thing work for most browsers....degrading down to 5 on IE and NS 5 or 6..... other then that...... :-P
use CSS to make it easier to change layouts, etc.....just make the damn thing functional this whole validation thing is another dumb way of keeping designers from designing.....
I remember the days when if you knew how to design...you did the comps....got paid the most money and some grunt intern did the cutups....
how did design turn into coding?
- acescence0
when a person with sight reads a page, they follow visual cues to read in a logical order.
take a page with proper semantic code and all css layout, and break the link to the stylesheet. it will read in a logical order.
now take a page constructed with tables. the content will likely appear in a haphazard order, and make no sense when read by a screen reader.
- beagle0
too much coding makes my brain hurt.
- liquid0
thats wonderful..... but to be honest.....I am not caring until I have someone I can hire to do this crap for me....
1) I don't make enough to do it... 2)the clients I get don't really care about it ...
3)The companies that I am working for really dont need it either
4) I am a designer....I shouldnt have to figure out how a specific tag degradese in 8 or 9 browsers....I think I might go into broadcast graphics and print.....cause this web stuff is getting annoying to me....
- acescence0
if you enjoy designing for web, you may also want to try booking airline seats next to infants and connecting your genitals to a car battery.
- blackspade0
i feel your pain
i too am guilty of lazy table layouts alongside CSS to save myseld grief
- liquid0
LAZY....... you arent lazy....
this CSS thing is ridiculous....its good for certain things.....
ok so then ALL flash sites are not accessible.....
- blackspade0
but a well built CSS site is superior to a table layout in many ways, no ?
- liquid0
oy......superior how.......
you can change things on the fly.....
whoop-de-do
if the site looks like the design you originally created in most browsers......and the client is happy and the users like it....
then thats it.......
- shaft0
At the point where we stand now, standards make it harder to create a website thus justify our jobs. In the old days anyone could make a website, now they need us.
- liquid0
OUR JOB IS TO DESIGN......DID WE FORGET THAT......
*slaps everyone
WHEN DID WE HAVE TO LEARN CODING.......STANDARDS.....DOMS... this Dom was short for dominic which is my fathers name.....other then that...... GRRRRRRRRRRRRR
yeah ok so it justifies us to the more expensive folks right now..... whoop-de-doo but all I get is the smaller end clients right now..... who dont pay jack
- liquid0
I am just trying to pull in enough clients right now so that I can hire a damn intern to do all this CSS stuff.......