advice from Germans needed
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- fifty50
I recently got a job offer in Germany at a small firm in bavaria. The problem is that it's up to me to tell them how much I want to be paid, but I want it to seem fair so that they will not change their minds.
I am designing a 36-page catalog for them, page size is 21x21 cm. There was another company who was offering a catalog design for them and they wanted 2000 euros for the design, but they didn't like the design OR the people, but they liked my design.
So this company who wants my catalog design said I should decide how much I want for the design. Should I ask for MORE than the other designers, since my design is the better one? Or should I ask for less since I am just an individual and not a company?
Also, they said it's up to me to tell them how much I want to make per month. Apparently over there, making 1300 euros per month is a lot for a designer. So, could any junior designers in Germany tell me how much they make per month, considering I will have to pay for rent in an apartment, food, electricity, phone, internet, cell phone, etc...
- mg330
Two words:
Blood Pudding.
- fifty500
so... how much should I ask for?
- stewart0
make a calculation.
estimated hours you're going to put in the project x EUR 90.
good luck.
- rabattski0
1300 is nothing. especially since it's bavaria where they make more money on a average basis. plus it's more expensive to live there.
- sandpipe0
36 pages? hmm...
depends on how many pictures,
text, infodesign etc. will be in the catalogue. i would say you can calculate between 1800 and 2600 Euros.
- rabattski0
is it freelance or are you an employee?
- rabattski0
also: are you doing the art direction or the art direction and entire layout / prepress as well?
- jgrafx0
forget it. really. as read above: 90 euros plus taxes per hour you spend on the shit, PLUS thinking bout your communication costs (isdn filez. mail shipping etc pp, if you work from ca as i saw at your profile: additional costs for color/proof problems...)
for working and living there:
1300 euros is NOTHING! i really tell ya!i live in saxony. leipzig. its ok, i am alone, i have a nice flat. but even so its not worth for the job to earn. 1300 after taxes and i will quit. if you pay taxes like germans, they will spend 2800 brutto a month. tax class one means 48-50% fees for tax,
my flat here (56sqm+balcony) costs 390 euros, phone bill: 100,00 a month (without online, i dont use at home, only office).
food and going to bars is expensive in bavaria, more than here... leipzig from that point is a cheap city.
now think of that small town in bavaria (mail me the name via normal email) and i tell you: YOU WANT TO TRAVEL ALL YOUR WEEKENDS! ya know what this means? LOADS OF COSTS! not possible with 1300 euros... forget it!
- jgrafx0
sorry, dismissed ca with the state/country. its canada as i read now. maybe bavaria is ok for you. just hiking and watching cows like home ;-D
- fifty500
well these employers said that 1300 a month netto is normal... and an apartment in Regensburg would only be between 300-400 euros, plus internet and food and other expenses. hopefully they will give me more than 1300, but i can't ask for more than they can give
as for the catalog. they agreed on giving me 1800 euros for this 36 page catalog, so 50 euros per page. it's not bad considering i am doing it all by myself, freelance.
- fifty500
so how much would a junior designer earn in germany? if 1300 euros netto (that's after taxes, right?) is not enough, then what is? The firm that offered me the job said that 1300 is good, and even a friend in germany said that she won't even be making 1300 right after she gets out of school.
- Elfangio0
I live in Stuttgart and I make 2500 euros less 1000 for taxes I take home 1500 and is more than enought to go this year 2 weeks to maldives :D
But then i am in a special situation and i only pay 200 euros for rent with everything included...yeah I know, lucky bastard!:D
good luck
Hasta
- jgrafx0
uh, 1.300 isnt that bad, but for a boy doing his job the right way you should expect more. even if its 1500 like discussed before, this will help... but 1.300 netto hmmmm. as i remember you take your health insurance on your own... downsizes money as well!
- rabattski0
in germany when you've finished school you'll be a praktikant for a while making close to nothing then you'll be a trainee making a little bit more than close to nothing and after that you start your way up. at least. that's berlin style.
- wendell0
to come in as rabtski said it as a praktikant is one route for you yes as i did it! then to!!!
i hope you can get ABOVE lucky to!
- jgrafx0
but if you're a lucky guy you do some real cool freelance work for money while study and use your chance to jump into that company when finished. or you work spare as barkeeper like i did at the beginning. but hey, to switch from canada to bavaria for *just* 1300 is not worth it, thats what i wanna say!
- rabattski0
true. but it's 1300 + 1800 for the catalogue which totals 3100. which is a lot more but for freelancing quite low.
i just don't understand it. so you're hired by an agency as an employee and they pay you 1300 net monthly but you're going to freelance in that same agency as well? very weird construction. please elaborate.
on another note. you need an arbeitserlaubnis (working permit) especially since you're non-eu *and* if we're talking about a regular job here, that agency needs to put the job opening at the arbeitsamt (labour office) first. only if they cannot find a proper employee from the eu they are allowed to hire someone from outside the eu. only then. thing is, that's not the big deal, they can always say for some reason that the person doesn't qualify. but still it's a whole paperwork to go through.
failing by doing so, as well as not having a working permit can lead to very high fines. for both you and that agency.
- nodh0
Now EU is gonna make you pay you north-americans for all the immigration hassles ... ;)
Just to say: start with 1300E netto and ask for more in a while if you see they are happy with your work...
- rabattski0
:) actually that has been there way before the immigration hassles. from the start of the eu actually.
and i still don't understand the whole employee / freelance construction.
- fifty500
They have already hired me but I won't be able to BE there to work until maybe january. in the meantime they are giving me work to do while i'm still here in canada. I might ask for more than 1300 euros per month, but not for a little while longer.
I have dual citizenship in canada and england, so I can work in the EU.