client lessons
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- monkeyshine
My new lesson...when a client goes on and on about how they are not creative or artistic...WATCH OUT!
I just got an email response from a client of a design review that has like 18 bullet points of "minor" things to change...move this text from here to there, take out that very major element of the concept and throw in the logo...big things that break down the concept.
How do you deal with this? Where's my crack pipe when I need it?!
- save0
i hate clients....especially their creative input!!!!
FUCK OFF!!!!!
- vespa0
Depends on whether you think they can be educated, how much they are paying etc.
You should call a meeting with them and try and educate them as to how your concept works and why it doesn't work with their changes. But if there comes a point where you start developing an ulcer and losing days of better spent time over some text placement then sometimes you have to grit your teeth and remember who pays the bills. You don't have to put it in your portfolio!
- hk_dwayne0
Yeah we all sympathise I guess....but maybe think about this:
a) If you arent strong enough to sell the whole concept, then thats not the clients problem,
b) maybe the concept isn't as strong as you think - sure the client breaking it apart is probably just as bad, but why not try working WITH him/her...if the 1st concept isn't working, and the client is resistant to change, then try working with them for an alternative
c) You're a designer, not a fine artist. If you want to be precious about your work and expect to get everything your own way, then this probably isn't the profession for you.
Sorry, in my position as a CD (and having worked for well over a decade) I've come across so many of these 'poor me' storys, and believe me I sympathise and I still get aggravated when clients do the same to me. But you learn not to moan about it - try working through the problem WITH them instead of AGAINST them.
Sure we ALL hate clients right? And who pays your damn salary, the Red Cross?
- unknown0
A quote from an ongoing client's email:
"I don't want to offer bad art direction so I will lay low through the process of the design and just stick to offering some advice and the facts of the contents"
How cool is that?
- hk_dwayne0
totally agreed vespa.... :-)
- monkeyshine0
yeah yeah yeah...I know. Ya'll are right. blah blah. :)
I actually don't feel precious about it..especially at this point. It just gets frustrating sometimes, especiallly working with a long-distance client. I normally never do design reviews via email but am forced to on this one.
I think an interesting thing that happens is that a client comes to you and presents their problem. My client wanted me to help him distill his message, which I did. He wanted something out of the ordinary, which I gave him, but its hard for ole dogs to learn new tricks. He wants to trust me but then he gets scared and falls back on his old ways and I have to coax him back. Push-Pull. I'm tired already.
- jevad0
hey dwayne - you working in Hong Kong? Whats the market like over there? I do a bit of freelance stuff for a company called pacific connections but want to get back over to HK at some point (I grew up there and my folks still live there)
- hk_dwayne0
Hey Jevad.....Yeah...man it's a small world...my parent company is the same as Pacific Connections - so Pac Conn is my sister company....ironically, I work pretty closely with them from time to time, in fact we're pitching together next Monday!!!
Anyway, HK....tough market at the moment. Freelance market is pretty saturated, and dare I say, overcrowded with a fair amount of crap (sorry guys!). Prices are rock-bottom too. Market is full of the type of clients we're talking about above this msg, but there are some good ones too - just fewer than there used to be :P
Where are you now?
I'd suggest coming back to HK in about 6-12 months at the earliest. Hopefully if 2004 starts picking up, then it'll all be good, otherwise the online market is still going to be hard.
Traditional markets (print, pub, corp id etc) aren't doing too badly.
- unknown0
what the fuck is a "concept"? I just do what I'm told, and get paid. I am creative on my own time.
- hk_dwayne0
cool....each to their own....
does that make you a designer or an artworker then?
- gravityroom0
It makes him a tool.
- corin0
charge them by the hour for changes, ensure them that those changes will impact the effects of the work on their target demographic, throw in this line, it always works great for me but you have to make sure you say it in the right place otherwise you'll offend ppl - it goes a little something like this...
hmmm, i fear that if i travel down that road you might start to look tacky and abbrasive
- i don;t know what the equivalent is in your area, but we have super A-mart catalogs down here, try referencing something shit when you talk about tack too, ppl here things differently when they come from a designer but if you mention something that will trigger an image of tacky shit in their mind they may come back to your way of thinking
- hk_dwayne0
wahahaha Gravity :-)
- jevad0
I'm in London at the moment - moving to Denver soon...will be in HK at christmas though for a few weeks....you from there originally?