designer or tech wizard.
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- Hypo
designers are constantly having to learn new skills to further their careers in design. Eg : flash action scripting..
This obviously takes the enphasis away from the acctual designing. Hence we are now getting a shit load of mediocre designers with ninja tech skills, this is just pulling the eye candy over peoples faces.would the likes of gmunk, .matt owen still be great designers without the likes of shockwave flash, aftereffects?
- blend30
I would argue that in actual medium to large production facilities there are people who are specializing in different tasks. You have your ADs, production ADs, programmers, concept designers and project managers etc. Freelancers and people trying to get to the industry are normally forced to do multi-tasking. It is not a bad thing at all. It gives you insight and the option to do variety of work later on. You need to be aware that you either have to put the energy into managing the co-operation with others who know different disciplines or just learn bit of everything. It is true that tech eye-candy can be overwhelming, but I think you need to understand that none of the guys mentioned in your posts propably did any of the things over night. They had to come with ideas first and then be able to pull it off by working like maniacs. Even in production environments you're in a situation where you have to somewhat undestand what the underlying technology is capable of, before you can do concept design on top of it. It is not only web design that has this problem. Same thing will be in your face in ceramics, industrial or any other design form.
- monkeyshine0
I don't think its a bad thing for designers to learn as much "tech candy" as possible but I do think that alot of designers, working on their own are forced to design from their limitations, versus what might be appropriate for the client....never a good thing.
I don't think the jack-of-all-trades leads to great design solutions.
- krist0ff0
i agree blend3, having an understanding of the processes/technologies is an important part of the design process. a textile designer needs to know how to steam/screen print etc to produce the correct look. i think the problem arises, as with all things, when people become more focused on the underlying technology than solving the actual design problem or sticking to the concept.
i think the majority of internet designers go through a learning phase where they obsess a little about technology such as actionscripting or photoshop filters, but to be a good designer it's important to use only what is appropriate. after a while it becomes using things because you should, not using them because you can.
in that respect i think the work of gmunk etc clearly stands out as good design because they are capable enough with their chosen medium to express what they desire. they are controlling the technology and not letting the technology control their work.
or that might all be bullshit and lets all crowbar the latest design trend into every bit of corporate work we do...
- Hypo0
Iam bringing all this up because I feel Iam some what now at a point were I need to bring on board some new skills to compete. The design Idea's and style are at a high but I see alot of work out today useing for example :
3d graphics, and actionscripting.
I do want to learn both, but at what cost ? and how much time would it take to learn? because the more time iam spending leaning these skills the less time I have to concentrate on design.
- blend30
heheh, yeah. Trend hopping incorporated, eh?
I would also like to point out that the guys singled out are really not representative of the whole designer population. They are propably looking for the "tech god"-jobs anyway and have made their sites accordingly. For the average designer this may feel intimidating as it is much harder to show the process of concept design for example. Such is life...
- blend30
Hypo,
don't crumble under the pressure to comply to the standard. If something is trendy it also means there are millions of copycat kids competiting for your job. Choose your own preferences and kick ass in your own specialty.
- Anetalaya0
I don't feel like writing to much today, so I will just say that I agree with blend3.
I understand your problem Hypo, I have the same one, but has blend3 said (again) is better to concentrate in what you do know how to do and work on that skills, there is always going to be someone that will need them, they'll look for you because you are good at it, not some kid that know how to use flash with eyes close.
Anyhow, it is always good to know a little of everything, becuase, because if you don't know how to do it, how come you will know if it can be done or how you will direct someone to do it.
- mbr0
I am always getting torn over what is the next thing to learn.
Do I keep going with actionscript (I went through a few books, but it's been 2 years)? Websites are not that common for me to do.
3D? Learn more of Max, even though I won't proabably ever use the particles and dynamics.
Design? Self promo stuff, maybe some after effects/3D animitions (that I have done for a long time, just need to comp them together), 2D, etc., etc., etc.So, after deciding I would put Flash aside I've got a decent size website to do (although it's pretty straight forward) that will need flash video.
Guessing or anticipating never works, you just gotta keep working, working, working.
- unknown0
you could also look at it from another angle... i learned flash/actionscript and html and java and whatnot because i wanted to further my design.
i remember the first website i ever made was in word97... fromt there, i gradually found my way to flash 2 and on to flash mx... all the way to josh davis coming to my highschool...
take josh davis as an example. he learned flash and web because he just wanted to publish his children's storybooks. hes a trained traditional artist, who HAD to learn the more techy stuff to publish his work... god knows how it got to the point it is now, cause hes amazing...
what im tryin to say here, is that the tools of design should not hinder or become an excuse for design or poor design. i think the punk kids need to study some more art history and apply their kung fun actionscript to designs which are a little more refined and rich...
- Hypo0
Iam pretty good with flash, its just the actionscripting ive never had time for. Lets be honest its really a programmers job. How long do you think it would take me to learn actionscripting? (Ive got a book in front of me here, action scripting for flash Mx, its the size of a small coffee table, if a dog took a bite out of this it would loose some teeth. A part from that its written in this funny language I dont understand. I bought this book on the advice of someone in here.. Is this book really for beginners!?
- mitsu0
the amount of time you put into that book will be given back to you exponentially based on the commonly accepted belief that time is money.
but yes, you could have someone else do the scripting...
- quamb0
if you enjoy it, go for it.
no good learning actionscript when you dont like coding... (despite its super close relationship with design)
- Hypo0
Mitsu, So your saying a begginner would be able to handle that book?
- mitsu0
yeah, probably. actionscript is much like javascript, which is very easy.
if you feel overwhelmed by the text, just grab another book as a cross reference and find a good online source for tutorials. then a good forum for your 'newb' questions .... before you know it, you'll be an actionscript mastah.
- Blofeldt0
I tend to find that it's better (for me) to think about what I want to do. And then, if I don't know how to do it, work out a way of doing it.
It means that your first attempts at things are pretty untidy and mostly, my programming envolves little more than copying, pasting and altering. But it gets me the result i'm after.Otherwise I find myself being drawn to thinking 'i've got this cool new technique how can i shoehorn it into this idea?'
- ilmarine0
some things i'd like to add.
sometimes i am the coding part of the team and sometimes i'm the designing part of one. clients always want pages that look like print (for html) or pages that look like movies or actual programs (for flash). when a designer gives me his design for coding (html), and it contains all those wacky gradients, dropshadows, collapsible menus and whatnot, and this has already been approved by the client, you all would learn a lot of new and extremely explicit vocabulary if you were in my room. i mean, this isn't even actionscripting, it's simple html. and if you are a a webdesigner and don't know the simple rules of html compatibility and the works then are you really in the right job.
sometimes the most important aspect of getting a project is the fact that you proposed to do it with the smallest amount of time and for the smallest amount of money. if this 'smallness' comes out of the fact that you and the programmer or you as the programmer know how to convert even the geekiest design ideas into a working code, then this is only a good thing. but the cornerstone of this conversion is almost always the designer who knows what is possible from the programming aspect of the project even if it strains the limits of reality.
the breaking point : you have to know what is your actual limit. i know that if i was given a tight deadline i could build a custom content management system but i would hire someone to build a shopping cart with visa support or a system to convert information from a gprs to the web format. on the other hand, i also know that if the project required a custom cms i would get all the money.
in conclusion : knowing the tools of the trade (web building) is always a good thing. and the more you resemble a tech wizard, the better for you. of course you'd have to know which deadlines to set ;)
- monkeyshine0
"...when a designer gives me his design for coding (html), and it contains all those wacky gradients, dropshadows, collapsible menus and whatnot, and this has already been approved by the client..."
This is part of a bigger problem. How can an interactive designer not have an understanding of interactive design? But an even bigger question is how did a project ever get that far down the line without technical folks involved? I think its a lack of vision on whoever is in charge of the company.
- dsmith70
sometimes you just have to start over.
the problem usually isn't learning the tool, but rather, understanding the concept. You can _learn_ how to use the bevel layer effects in photoshop but it doesn't mean you understand when and where to use it (btw, the answer is NEVER).
Development and Design are both deeply rooted in concept. Learn the fundamentals, then progression will follow. It will take you a while. I remember when i thought I would never learn PHP and I always felt that I was sinking deeper into a hole not knowing it, so I sat myself down and fucking learned it. All it takes is initiative.
- ********0
concept.
- bug0
I agree with Blofeldt.
I learn on a need to know basis.When i want or need to know something, i'll figure it out...there are tons of resources and references, and from the constant problem solving and research, i gain more knowledge.
Am i an AS wiz, no, but could i put together a site that makes me look like a wiz...yes.
So, for me, i wouldn't go sit down and say"i'm going to learn the in's and out's of AS" i just gather up my knowledge and try to bring it all together.
I think the bigger issue is the left/right brain interference...
For me, there seems to be a disconnect between trying to make something look pretty while at the same time trying to make it function.*finally a good thread.