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- providence0
The interesting thing cbr_dave is what is "right"? With no context I would argue there is no "right". But given specific context things can be right and wrong. So maybe she was thinking of the wrong context.
Example:
Killing. If a man/woman threatens your child(or a child)'s life would kill them to defend the child? I would. Would it be justified? I think so. But is taking a persons life that is seemingly unrelated to you in any significant way justifiable? I don't think so. The context change, one's is related to you very specifically(the death of a child) and one is not related at all, is where we find our definitions of murder and killing.
- unknown0
On choosing who to talk with. We can´t allways do that, but when some hothead comes into our dojo and starts talking about how to win or awoid fights., it´s a long way for him, I should think.
The whole idea is not even to end up in a threadning situation; in using "common sense" one can avoid alot of bad energy; also in conversation.
- providence0
Hell yeah,
I think of myself as a cross country runner before a martial artist. I can run faster and farther than the threat and if she/he catches me then maybe I will defend myself.
- vespa0
In capoeira we start facing each other at the foot of the berimbau (that's the fishing rod like instrument that detirmines the tempo and mood of the game).
The master sings a "ladainha" that gives respect to previous masters and when the music moves into call and response, the 2 players can begin. They always shake hands before and after the game, sort of as if to make sure there is no ill feeling between the two.
- vespa0
Oh yea and our teacher (who is from the favellas in Salvador) always says that capoeira is good to keep us alert etc but if someone pulls a knife on you, don't play games just run!
- unknown0
Sorry providence; but I belive you wrote "farther" back there; can´t help laughin at that one. Still early in the morning over there? Here it´s about time to go home, 4 o´clock soon.
- vespa0
What's wrong with farther? And have I lost an hour? Isn't it only 3 oclock?
- vespa0
Woops sorry international conversation time difference duur.
- unknown0
Providence,
well i was explaining to her that there are people out there that didn't need degrees b/c they were hard working, and as a result are millionaires now. she just didnt' listen, i don't think it had anything to do with the context of the conversation. she was pretty narrow-minded, b/c she had made some off the wall commments about other things.as for the killing thing... here's something to think about:
i had a pscyho roommate, who i call "pscyho machete." i'll explain why pretty soon (not in this post).
but anyways in high school this guy's dad was married to this other lady who wasn't his mom. they didn't get along and she was "threatening" to divorce him for all his money (who doesn't make that threat?)...
well anyaways on her birthday he asks her to meet him at the mall. in the lot, he tells her to close her eyes, he has a surprise for her. He then puts a pillow over head and pulls the trigger on the gun, but it misfires.
so she's like,"what's going?" and screaming, trying to get out of the car. he shot her 3 times after the intial misfire, one going through the back of her ear and out her eye, the other two into her back.
he goes home and pretends nothing happened...cops come 3-4 hours later and ask where his wife is.. his dad played dumb. but it turns out that the lady lived. and now the dude is in jail.
Psycho machete thinks that it is justified b/c he thinks that the 2nd or 3rd wife or whatever deserved it for trying to take his dad's money for alimony when they divorced.
How can killing someone be justified b/c they got married and don't get along? this took alot of planning, and the roommate that i had is very delusional and acts like a psycho, and then blames it on his lack of father figure (this happened when he was in high school).
but the question is, should people feel sorry for him b/c his dad wasn't there for him during high school? people do feel sorry for him and put up with his actions, which i do not agree with. he's done alot of f'd up stuff.
don't knwo where i'm going with this.. but i got into alot of arguments with him, b/c he was pscyho, close minded... he broke a pint near my foot at a bar once b/c i told him he was smoking too much crack for trying to charge me more rent for a room in the house that i wasn't even using.
- unknown0
Guess it´s my bad then(just learn to say "my bad" watcing 8 mile). My bad; I just thought "farther" was too close to "fart", then again I never was good at spelling anything.
- vespa0
cbr_dave totally agree with you about the degree not necessarily needed.
But I know now to be wary when people are unreasonably stubborn on one point cos as soon as you call them a stupid crackhead you are gonna find out that their parents died of crack a few weeks before and their dying wish was that their kids get a degree!
- unknown0
.....I´ll just leave with that last remark; vespa; you hit the spot. One´s gotta know what one opposes.
All good statements apart, it´can also be a bore to be correct sometimes; I mean sometimes I just wanna say "fart"(or do it)
Why? Because once we have acomplised correctness, we must forget it(forget being "unnatrual") and just live again.
Hence the zen-saying:
First the mountain is a mountain a the sea a sea. Then the mountain is not a mountain and the sea not a sea. A last, the mountain is a mountain and the sea is sea again
- providence0
Yes,
The wierd part is that contexts are subjective. So apparently psycho machete's context for killing was different than mine and presumably yours. But for psycho machete it was o.k. Which is why its important to understand that we are all one-sided. We all have only one context in which we operate. But our contexts aren't all completely different, hence we can talk but sometimes frustrate each other.
Any other Jungian's out there?
- vespa0
Not too familiar with Jung but have come across some of his philosophies regarding a universal pool of thought/ideas, and that ultimately we all know everything and are trying to remember...? don't know enough to agree/disagree.
- IRNlun60
I guess I have a pretty pesimistic view on conversation and debate. i believe we are born pretty evil and crude. we have to be taught how to interact and be openminded. look at school kids. I remember getting into fights over pencil sharpners and erasers.
most are not taught in school how to deal with conflict in a rational and non-selfish approach. we are all guilty of it. shit we're human.
I believe kids should be taught reasoning and argument from a very early age.
Great thread. I have been thinking alot about this in the recent pre-war times.
Talking with ultra pro-war people, I just try to keep a cool head. key word is 'try'.
- vespa0
Yea IRNlun6. I think reasoning should definitely be taught from an early age. I think the fact that we are mainly taught to regurgitate established "truths" rather than questioning everything is a leftover from the slave ancestry that we all have if you look back far enough.
And when conversation breaks down the violent amongst us are able to capitalise on our fear of each other.
- iodine740
Not to throw a wrench in the works, but actually I believe schools here in the US these days are teaching conflict resolution, probably even moreso than ABCs and 123s. There's a pretty big debate (no pun intended with the current thread topic) about that type of thing going on. It's all tied in with the subject of Education reform and vouchers and all that.
I've got a 2 year old, and so I 'get' to watch alot of kids shows (Seasame Street, Blues Clues, Dragon Tales, Bear in the Big Blue House and the like). The 'academic' side of what is being taught doesn't seem as strong as it was when I was young.
Where are the Letter People when you need them?
- vespa0
That's good. There wasn't any such thing as conflict resolution when i was at school, even at university. Not surprising considering the Australian govts' acute myopia on the issue...
The closest thing I remember was a lecturer telling us to always say "yes" to everything in professional life. Boy did I ignore that advice!
But I remember classes in "Comprehension" when I was 8. I think they were the building blocks of my drive to try and make sense of everything ever since.
- unknown0
providence...
i think it's ok to realize that everyone is one sided, but to justify killing someone just b/c their marriage didn't work out?
to really believe that it is justified to kill someone b/c the marriage doesn't work out is just plain sick.
how can you have an intelligent conversation with someone who thinks that? and the sad thing is one of my best friends feels sorry for the dude and is like, "you don't know what he's been through.." which is BS, b/c his dad was there, but chose to f' up by attempting to kill his current wife at the time.
and for the guy to be like," she deserved to die... she put my dad in jail." the guy is just plain demented. there is no way that is justifiable, when you look at it from ALL sides.
- unknown0
people just need to be open-minded and respectful of each other's views to have an intelligent conversation. you don't have to be intelligent to have an intelligent conversation... just open minded and respectful..