WAR
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- jevad0
and you need to think about WHY they want to eradicate you - and it's not just you bud - it's most of the west.
You really need to think - what drives someone to blow themselves up - fly a plane load of people into a building - why are they doing it?
What has the west done to deserve it?
I'm not trying to justify anything - I abhore terrorism...but one mans terrorist is another mans freedom fighter.
US and UK foreign policy (but mostly US) is most to blame - especially regarding Israel and Palestine.
Take off the blinkers and do some reading.
- reinitialize0
thanks jevad...
you obviously are a sympathizer.
you have All the answers, and you are a true freedom fighter.
have you ever had someone close to you murdered?
according to you -
someone who fights for freedom is indespensable.there is a point in which you understand their reasons for doing things, and when it goes beyond that - someone has to step in and smack them around a bit because they are too hyper to just let others be.
- jevad0
ah man you know what - I jsut spent a good 15 mins typing something out - but then I realised this isn;t the time or the place - and I can't be bothered arguing with you because you can't see thru your american patriotism.
So i will jsut say that no - i'm not a terrorist sympathiser, and no I haven't had anyone close to me murdered - hope I never do.
But I do sympathise with the palestinians and I can understand the rampant anti-Us and anti-the west sentiment that prevails in teh middle east.
and thats because I read alot and take it different points of view and don't just watch cnn, and take what my country says as to me as gospel.
- kpl0
ok, I can't comment much on this tape without some background info on whats going on. if this is afghanistan and the targeted is al-qaeda, then screw it. they deserve to die, who cares how. you become a soldier and you're at war, you forfeit your life.
i'm a green style liberal, I'm against a war with iraq, etc. but I dont find much wrong with the tape...except for the shoddy execution of the mission.
scream all the bloody genocide shit you want. they'll still park a car bomb next to you.
- Nematoth0
I don't really want to get into the argument here. Maybe later.
In the meantime could someone put the file up on a decent server so I can actually download it?
- jawbreaker0
The Justice of War:
by Patrick Stephens"...To answer those questions requires a detailed understanding of the justice of war—both the justice of the cause, and the justice of the conduct of war. To be sure, the idea of applying principles of justice to warfare is absurd to many pacificists and critics of the current war. The ideology that begets antiwar declarations like the one adopted by the Berkeley City Council, and that underlies the "cyclical violence" model, permits no distinction between aggression and defense, submission and justice. But, in fact, the practice of justice is exactly that: discriminating between the guilty and the innocent, and assigning responsibility accordingly. Antiwar protests that demand American concessions to terrorists are corruptions of justice. To say, as does the petition circulated by Foreign Policy in Focus, that "the greater part of victory will come through our government addressing the policies, circumstances, and grievances that spark terrorist responses" is to urge that evil be rewarded for being evil and good be punished for being good..."
the rest:
http://www.objectivistcenter.org…as for the "Brown People" thing: Not only is the comment incredibly racist, but a perfect, thoughtless, regurgitation of a "party line" amountable to a sunday morning church service.
- jevad0
good post jawbreaker
- reinitialize0
excellent response jevad...
or should i say "jihad"
you ... who have nothing
better than to squawk
your latest conspiracy theories,you ... who think you are such a free thinker, but think just like everyone else who thinks they are a free thinker.
you ... whose only retort to someone else's point of view is-
"well, I read alot and take different points of view and don't just watch CNN"you ... are all So tiresome. just get the fuck out of this country.
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- jevad0
HAHAHHA
classic.
im not even IN your country!
- InVivio0
In arguments like this its important to remember to keep your position flexible, information changes fairly rapidly. As an American I find it rather hard to take criticism from impassioned people from other countries. But its important to keep an open mind and look for the basis of thier criticism, not to just repond to it capriciously.
- dex0
calm down boys - this is hardly constructive debate now is it?
- TransFatty0
yes .... well put InV
- exador0
thank god for InVivio...
not only intelligent..
but thoughtful and polite too! :)we could use a few more people like you around here...
thanks for bringing a little class and decency to this thread, man...
cheers
ex
- jevad0
I'd just like to say - I am not anti-american.
I have a lot of american friends - I went to an american school - and my fiancee is american. I lived there for 2 years and would like to return someday.
What I do have a problem with is america's foreign policies and it's current ruling gvt body.
I can't condone any kind of terrorist attack, just like I cannot condone any kind of unprovoked aggression or warmongering.
Sorry if I came on strong...I'm just...scared...like a lot of people I think...worried for the future.
It's a crazy time...but...sometimes I think...It's jsut the way of the world...and you have to let it take it's course. que sera sera and all that...
I'll shut up now.
- unknown0
I'm with jevad on this one.
Americans (the government) have adopted this "if your not with us your with the terrorists" policy. everything to them is black and white and they're trying to divide the world.How can you act as judge jury and executioner from a mile up?
Americans are such adamant defenders of justice and freedom...but only on their soil. When it comes to foreign countries they throw due process out the window and act like barbarians, assassinating and murdering at will.
- kbags0
I think that it is unfair to tell another individual -- whose opinions are based on entirely different circumstances and values -- that s/he is wrong for feeling the way s/he feels. All I can hope for is that YOU watch, think, and respond with an open mind.
This movie is simply another angle on a great utilitarian debate that divides nations and is as old as mankind. Ultimately, however, the burden of judgement is a private matter.
- kbags0
Sorry, I do not know the Kurr family...I received the link from a coworker.
- sexypixel0
The most frustrating part about this is that I have no power over who is elected to the US government, but still I have to suffer the consequences of they're actions, and watch as bombs drop all over the globe. America, if you are a ‘global’ power, please, takes the globe’s views into consideration. Don’t presume we are on you side.
Have a safe new year everyone!
- jawbreaker0
I agree that The US suffers from an unprincipled foreign policy, and this is often spuriously used as a "grievence" by the Theological Fascists we're fighting. The real goal of these "people" is merely establishing an Fascist Islamic "regime". Do you think Bin Laden et.al. are going to keep abortion legal? or promote gay marriage?
And the way it's looking now, we're going to need help restoring/protecting freedom in our own country...
and why is it automatically assumed that the footage isn't of the pursuit of "legitimate targets"
as far as "barbarians" goes, I think slitting the throat of an innocent flight attendant qualifies.
and there is no "Due Process" in war.
also, would someone explain to me the "grey area" between being killed/not being killed?
- sexypixel0
"Do you think Bin Laden et.al. are going to keep abortion legal? or promote gay marriage?"
ya, woohoo, they dont agree with us, lets blow the shit out of them from above, and if thst doesnt work, lets send in the poor and impoverished americans to go in on the ground and finish them off.
a bit of a chat with the enemy could go a long way. Am i so far fetched that maybe bush would sit down with sadam and ask him " sadam, are you having a bad day, what can i do to make it ok?"
nah, dont talk to terrorists, kill 'em