Coronavirus

Out of context: Reply #6215

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  • yuekit0

    Anyway ultimately this shouldn't be so complicated.

    For those of you convinced you're right about the vaccines being dangerous, just post 1) the specific thing you're claiming, 2) evidence (in the form of a study or systematic analysis) that it's true.

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    yuekit 0Permalink
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    • “Pfizer and Moderna mRNA COVID-19 vaccines were associated with an excess risk of serious adverse events of special interest of 10.1 and 15.1 per 10,000”Chimp
    • https://pubmed.ncbi.…Chimp
    • So around 1 in 800 chance of a serious side effect doesn’t sound safe to me. Especially if you’re young.Chimp
    • So there is one thing. Can you now admit that these vaccine while they did help some were dangerous to others?Chimp
    • Hmmm didn't we already discuss this study? You can read a more critical analysis of it here:yuekit
    • https://sciencebased…yuekit
    • Basically what they did was go back to the original Pfizer and Moderna trials and broaden the list of things that counted as "adverse events."yuekit
    • But whether you trust this study or not, how is it in any way consistent with the idea that large numbers of people are dying from the vaccines?yuekit
    • I gave you one thing with evidence. Why can’t you accept it?Chimp
    • Posting an editorial article by 1 author doesn’t discredit a scientific report.Chimp
    • lol, of course after posting it's good to analyze what it actually says no?yuekit
    • Even if we buy this study, what it says is there's a 1 in 800 risk of adverse event, which includes things like diarrhea and getting a rash.yuekit
    • It also shows there's a lower risk of myocarditis among vaccine recipients in the Moderna trial, slightly higher (2 people vs 1 person) in Pfizer trial.yuekit
    • And sure, the idea that cost-benefit might be not worth it among some age groups is a legitimate debate to have.yuekit
    • But it's a million miles away from the debate we were having, isn't it? Where people were claiming vaccine deaths are common, the government lied etc.yuekit
    • @yuekit it also includes death as a side effect. Can you now admit that these vaccines aren't safe for all?Chimp
    • You've been given clear evidence but still you're not capable of admitting that these vaccines are dangerous to some.Chimp
    • Do you understand what I said above? This is just taking Pfizer and Moderna's existing studies and changing categorization of what is a serious adverse event.yuekit
    • The Pfizer and Moderna studies already classified death as a serious event so that's not something you needed this paper to tell you.yuekit
    • If you look at the original vaccine studies, they included around 20k people in vaccine group and 20k in placebo group.yuekit
    • The number of deaths was in the low single digits and none of them were related to the vaccine. A few deaths in the placebo group were attributed to COVID.yuekit
    • So people dying from vaccines actually has been tested in large-scale studies and it doesn't support large number of deaths at all.yuekit
    • The study you're citing doesn't change that, instead it takes the exact the same studies and expands the number of less serious illnesses classified as ayuekit
    • "serious adverse event." So it's really a debate over what is considered a serious side effect on the lower end of the scale.yuekit
    • My friend's cousin's neighbor.palimpsest
    • yuekit, why is it so hard for you to admit that the vaccine has killed people. There is no doubt in that. Safe vaccines don't kill people.Chimp
    • I never said they didn't. 5.5 billion people took some kind of vaccine, it would be incredible if no one had a bad reaction that killed them.yuekit
    • But you have to put this in perspective. Taking aspirin is estimated to kill thousands of people a year, should we ban aspirin?yuekit
    • Doctors aren't coming forward asking to suspend aspirin.Chimp
    • What would actually convince you the vaccines are safe enough to use?yuekit
    • 1 in 800 risk of side effects vs 1 in 88 dead from covid. hhmmm. I'll take what's behind door #1 Alex._niko
    • Niko, your number is totally off. It's more like "0.09% CMR, or 86 deaths per 100,000 population" in under 65s.Chimp
    • yuekit, good question. Having a much lower then 1 in 800 risk of side effects, not knowing 2 people who have died and my GFs sister having heart arrhythmiaChimp
    • Or if I was over 65 and didn't have antibodies from infection, the trade off might be worth it.Chimp
    • yuekit, when did you take your last booster and at what point will you stop taking it?Chimp
    • I'm not some kind of vaccine fanatic who's going to keep getting booster shots forever lol...I had Pfizer vaccine in 2021 and then J&J this year.yuekit
    • I experienced zero side effect BTW, and never got COVID either. The thing that is really disturbing IMO are these cases of "long COVID" where people becomeyuekit
    • permanently sick and it disrupts their life.yuekit
    • Also consider this...
      https://twitter.com/…      yuekit
    • Many of the things people assume are caused by vaccines could be caused by COVID itself.yuekit
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