Russia-Ukraine Invasion

Out of context: Reply #1334

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  • PonyBoy1

    PonyBoy 1Permalink
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    • To the dolts (you know who you are)... don’t get worked up over the 5:30-ish to 8:20-ish mark, He explains himself.PonyBoy
    • Chomsky has ZERO understanding of world politics. All he can do is complain about the West and the USA.pr2
    • I think Chompsky is good at pointing out the bad actions and atrocities America has committed. During the Cold War Americans were totally unaware of much of it,yuekit
    • they were as brainwashed as Russians are today. But his analysis of conflicts where another country is the bad actor are almost always shit.yuekit
    • Like here he says negotiate - is he unaware Ukraine have been negotiating w/ Russia the entire time? And even said they would be neutral and not part of NATO?yuekit
    • People like him and John Mearsheimer make it sound like it's inevitable Russia attacks Ukraine but why? What good did Russia get out of this conflict?yuekit
    • I'm not sure the unawareness or brainwashing has changed a lot yuekit. Where did you get that Ukraine will be neutral thing from? I believe this is not the caseuan
    • I don't follow the news in detail about it, but I had the impression Ukraine refused to adopt the neutral status at the start of the conflict in negotiations.uan
    • I read they pushed to join NATO and/or EU instead, but were refused by both of them. It's a bit surprising to read that Ukraine wants to be neutral.uan
    • https://www.pbs.org/…yuekit
    • https://www.theguard…yuekit
    • I had the impression Russia demanded in the negotiations that Ukraine should declare itself a neutral state and Ukraine refused to do so.uan
    • That was over a month ago and strangely had zero effect on Russia continuing the invasion...almost like this was not the real motive.yuekit
    • from pbs article: Zelensky said that the question of neutrality,[...],sho... be put to Ukrainian voters in a referendum after Russian troops withdraw.uan
    • It's not what Russia asked for. But looks like the negotiations are moving at least in baby steps forward.uan
    • The idea that Russia is bombing Ukrainian cities into dust just so they will be neutral on the exact term Russia demanded doesn't much sense does it?yuekit
    • I don't see how someone as intelligent as Chomsky still believes this. Russia's original intention was to topple the government of Ukraine and install a puppetyuekit
    • government. When that failed they switched to backup plan, take over Southern Ukraine and use it to isolate Ukraine from the sea until they give up.yuekit
    • By blocking Ukraine's exports BTW, they are likely going to provoke a major food crisis impacting people in Asia and Africa.yuekit
    • There's no sign of anything reasonable on Russia's end and yet Chomsky bizarrely takes issue with people calling it an unprovoked invasion.yuekit
    • He's not taking issue w/anyone calling it "unprovoked" - he's taking issue w/folks who failed to call other comparable situations "unprovoked" too.PonyBoy
    • Simply put: He's pointing out the fucking hypocrites who pick and choose which situation is politically correct to get upset over.PonyBoy
    • +YakuZoku
    • No he says very clearly Ukraine war was "provoked", Iraq was "unprovoked." Give me some credit I actually did watch your video :)yuekit
    • He also says Ukraine needs to negotiate with Russia, Donald Trump is the only "statesman" to point this out, the West unfairly paints Putin as evil and crazy.yuekit
    • I dunno, I like Chomsky but he seems stubbornly immune to the facts on some issues. Russia has been meddling in Ukraine for years, first they seizedyuekit
    • Crimea, then they helped create these "breakaway republics" in Eastern Ukraine and even secretly sent their military in to help defend them.yuekit
    • The media does a poor job explaining this, Russia has had troops in Ukraine for years before the big invasion. So who provoked who here?yuekit
    • I apologize... I was referring to 16:00-17:00 where he's merely speaking about the language the media used to compare the invasion of Iraq w/that of UkrainePonyBoy
    • the word 'unprovoked' was used in both cases... he points out that the anti-war sentiment is however inverted when comparing the twoPonyBoy
    • I think you can draw a lot of parallels between the two...remember how Bush was babbling about the "weapons of mass destruction" but it was kind of obviousyuekit
    • he didn't really care about that and had already decided to invade. Also in both cases the war totally irrational and the USA and Russia badly miscalculated.yuekit
    • The weird thing is some people who were rightly critical of Iraq are sympathetic to Putin and take his explanations at face value.yuekit
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