Politics

Out of context: Reply #30730

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    On my disgust of the recent implosion of of debt driven IPOs and the passive mal investments. And how gov incentives intended to help the people are a sham that only contribute to larger wealth inequality. And to Fax point about human punctuation. Maybe not the right tact... Set is always a cunt though.

    And I am a terrible writer in broad aspects because Im not sure the best method to convey ideas in a linear fashion.

    To start I think we have to look at the intention and under"lying" justification for every rule and law involving investments and retirement ideas and myths. From social security to 401k and such. All have throughout history have been methods of control and power grabs by political leaders. Wether through the church methods of salvation with current sacrifice for gains or even roman promised pensions to prevent uprisings of failed states. The con is not new and usually never ends with what was promised. Just a con and a sell for political figures. Never has it been about the people it has been meant to benefit.

    If we look at the US before FDR and we were to question people about an idea of retirement they might not have one. Why would anyone think of such a thing. Be promised security in age and live life free of all natural contraints involved in life. It has and always will be an idea that I think appeals to people with limited vision, or short sightedness. Cant do anything about that, except better edcuation to stay away from snake oil sellsmen. But Social security was a great sell for FDR offering a product that diversified him from competition and offered a great ponzi scheme false promise he'd never need to be alive for in the long term. He was a tool but he wasn't an idiot. And with all the wartime income freezes and capital controls i think it unintendedly helped promote his causes and history and us pride school books help shape a false narrative of his policies. Giving up near 12.4% (or about 15.3 if you count medicare) is an amoutn to let us live freely and happily after 65 (age has changed so much im not really sure without looking it up). But that was the promise. And that promise has been seen as false and most of the funds have been spent or borrowed agaisnt and current payroll goes to pay the interest on the borrowed funds devaluing the whole scheme. I think historically it would be hard to find anyone to defend the "success" of this program. It's huge failure with liabilities that will never be paid. However social security has little to do with the passive investment Im talking about but sets up the accepted culture of an omnipotent thing that says if you give me money i will always grow your funds and retirement is possible.

    The passive investment that bugs me the most is the 401k that was started as a legal tax accident from the 1978 revenue act. Im sure there is also more rules but this is a big one. The accident created a product that neither big banks or gov wanted to correct. It was never the intentions but when discovered it was promoted and pushed. It took a little bit to catch on and sell but when it did it took off. https://www.rstreet.org/2017/01/…

    Probably a lot of small rules as well but what bank wouldn't like a popular culture promoting and gov subsidizing giving secured money to a limited and small amount of investment areas. If you were a company who profited what would you do? Best to sell the idea to blindly invest becuase stocks will always go up. Which does have some truth if a FED shoots for 2% inflation per year, but early on value mattered and metrics were more rational. And early on you could expect gains becuase it wasnt all fake and hadnt been geared or weaponzied for profit as algos and curretn metrics account for. Which is not value because pasive investment and the myth of retirement has pumped so much money into the systems and companies that real value doesnt even equate. Now a big driver of this blind investment is driven by political and gov controls that give incentives for such behavior. And I should mention the political growth ideals of the idea of retirment are great in knowing that experienced leve workforce and create areas for new incomers... silly but central planners think theyre smart and control that shit.

    So this passive investment by people who shrug and say theyre hegdin inflation, or more than likely just doing what theyre told will give them more money as an greedy person would do. Its a huge problem for capitalism and price discovery. Gov subsidizes mal investment. It also devalues savings through inflation and promotes spending at any cost on assets. Not good for the poor or income equality. And the idea of it promising futures while discouraging savings... its so obviously irrational and harmful... people probably forget the fdr gold grab to... Gov does not want us to be self sufficient in saving for retirement. They want us to take the money from under the mattress and spend it. They say as much with interest rates through devaluation. Hard to prove the gov actually encourages any type of savings. And should be common place suspect that they offer savings and investments...

    Im not hopeful, but I think people would be best to ignore all tax incetives and save money without investment. But im a rationalist, and no people are less principled than I and will graviate naturally to any condition that benefits them right now. Its the human condition. IEme and my gal had a pizza in restaurant that had massive power failure so cards wouldnt be accepted. they planned to give free pizza. we asked to see the deal and they offered free pizza when we said all we had was card.. but i actually pulled cash that day from a bank visit. i paid the full bill in cash, while others got free meals. I know im not the norm. principles hardly matter to people. In this situation i lose by choosing a principle, but so many passive investors are chasing lost causes out of greed with no principles and they are soon going to be the losers. They dont even have a clue because social conditioning and following herds. He had 401k and that comapny did it to so i did it. It means ill be taken care of (ignoring promises of histortical SS)

    Or im completely wrong. Gov will continue to devalue the dollar and inflate assets. No country holding dollars will ever be the wiser and we always control the petro dollar allowing our manipulations and my responsible savings and money in the mattress and refusal of giving my money passivley to companies or a select few individuals to invest in algos ends up in large losses due to inflation and devalueign of the dollar. I can say my dollar lost about half its worth locally regarding real estate in the last year. I thought the QT and pwoell would help adjust asset prices but seems political pressure or large panic liquidity scared him. and now political pushes by trump to lower rates... I have no idea what to do as investment. But if they keep the approach with low interest rates and asset inflation I can only see a populist socialist winning an election and giving me a proportion of the people who grew retirements funds in the previous years. After all equality and if I have none I have the most to gain from a populism socialism system.

    And come on. 84% of companies IPOing worth billions that have never made a profit.... It really seems like common sense to me that it's mal investment for the future, not just short end gains. No one is going to win. And the fallout not just from stock price but jobs and lose capital and capital that has been debt monetized is so much worse than the home issue.. it scares me enough i wonder wether I should get gun. I rep peoples rights for guns but i have never wanted one. But I also dont think the US will always be the hero of the world, and i think alot of peace comes from the petro dollar. Historically we wont have it forever and looking at other currency fluctuations from pinnacles can cause quite disruption. China is a very interesting entity. I wont say it couldnt surpass us and take global control.

    Really people need to think about what controls them to invest in retirement programs, or pensions. What they plan to achieve. Was it their idea? Personally i want time off in my youth. Are they pawns of the big banks? are they greedily chasing any gains promised? do they realize they are fronting 100 capital have 100% risk and only net something like 30% of gains. do they realize they are stupid pawns?

    sigh... we small fries are all so fucked

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    • My retirement account is healthy and will ensure me and my family will have a good life until the end.monospaced
    • Also I’ve profited immensely on these IPOs. Even the ones with companies that don’t profit.monospaced
    • How is planning for a good late life retirement in any way "limited vision, or shortsightedness?" It's quite literally the opposite of that.monospaced
    • mono i think he's talking about the idea the market has come to the point of asking the public to support companies that have never shown a profitcolin_s
    • which in turn benefits the early investors but may bankrupt the rest once they're out from responsibility for keeping the company afloat, screwing over your 401colin_s
    • big tech could easily become an accelerated version of the housing crisis in terms of economic falloutcolin_s
    • Amazon only recently turned a profit...look at what that investment is paying out.formed
    • Not investing is stupid. I don't pay anyone, I manage my own investments. I study and learn.formed
    • China will surpass. Quick, too, if Tman continues with his policies.formed
    • And like mono, the markets have turned my investments into a nice retirement fund, doubling many, many times over.formed
    • @colin, gotcha ... in that case, I fail to see how the government really has anything to do with an individual's choice to back a unicorn IPO ...monospaced
    • ... or in the ability for a company to become a unicorn in the first place. The only way to curb this would be a regulation in the free capitalist market.monospaced
    • All of which isn't related to my own private 401K, and my planning for retirement and legacy, which like formed, has nothing to do with the government.monospaced
    • So I will double down and say that a healthy 401K is the smart move, considering alternatives. This isn't politics.monospaced
    • Neither is gambling on a unicorn IPO.monospaced
    • ^ That.formed
    • If you are talking about changing the rules around IPOs, and you want the government to back those rules, that would be nothing but REGULATIONS.monospaced
    • Mono current gov regulation gives incentives to invest in unicorns, passive investment, and even companies to offer plans. Did you know you are forced to
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    • sit through employer plans. and all the regulations rules trying to be passed to force mandatory investments.
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    • its strange you see no gov involvement here but their fingers are all over the scales. Colin got where I was going.
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    • Its just scary that a market is trading securities on companies that never made a profit or companies that price is trading at 40x times actual earnings
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    • would this exist if it wasn't for botched 1978 revenue acts, and allowing pre tax dollars to invest? in markets its all about timing.
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    • i don't gamble with my money, i could gamble with others... but it all looks good until it doesn't. The 2008 market drop was legit. But gov/fed inflated a even
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    • a bigger asset bubble. I wont presume to know when, but it will end badly. And im on the side of cash which is being destroyed, but I just prefer the liquidity
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    • Crossing fingers china doesnt try to upsurp the reserve currency this year as there big finale to 70 years of communism. really bothers me deals
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    • with saudis for trade and now they will require chinese as mandatory in school teachings as second language.
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    • and i love this hubris "My retirement account is healthy and will ensure me and my family will have a good life until the end."
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    • and how can that graph on investment and gov policies involved during times not register as gov made bubbles. gamers no about rules to systems
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    • an OP gun, everyone goes for. Tax rules and regs have made passive investment OP. Over used and breaking the system. Thought the developer/fed with QT was actua
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    • lly going to nerf the system, albeit ppl said it was impossible, and they seemed to be proven correct after dec liquidity fiasco. Now just waiting for reality
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    • to check it.as tom robbins said, artifical inflation is still controlled by natures rules, you can only stoke a fire and build it up so big either it goes out
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    • control and burns the village down, or you use all fuel and the flames ceases to exist.
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    • And perhaps ppl like mono behavior is being manipulated by gov and he has no idea. i might be naive in thinking such things are obvios
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    • there is NO government incentive in existence for investing in a unicorn IPO. Whomever told you that is lying, and you're a fucking idiot for believing itmonospaced
    • IF there is one, PROVE IT. I'll wait. If you plan to just add another 10 notes without any evidence, don't bother, FFS.monospaced
    • I invested in several unicorn IPOs. I GUARAN-FUCKING-TEE I got NO INCENTIVE whatsoever for it. Your turn, you sad sack.monospaced
    • after 1978 law companies could offer retirement plans to employees as a perk. however they calculated a portion of allocated salary to retirement
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    • why, because they get more tax reductions. Now the employee by law can also invest and get tax perks of being tax free now. These funds mostly all flow to ETFs
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    • mutual funds, and investment vehicles that are centralized by a few big companies. These companies algos choose were to put the money. And there is so much mone
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    • y and passive funds that every company is over bought. And this passive money has pretty much screwed all invest values and price discovery
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    • Now maybe you actually get on scottrade and buy unicorns like bitcoins. But that is not passive investment and individual gambling of that sort is fine
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    • but when X amount of money is leaving peoples paycheck each month and going to the casino to be pushed into overbought companies and chasing any trend to get
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    • paid is bad. especially considering they cash out quite frequently while most have to wait 30 years. Now you might say the law doesn't force investment. True
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    • But the most successful laws are ones that shape behavior. Carbon tax laws to shape use of gas, waste disposal laws to shape how much you toss. In this case
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    • this law happen by accident. It wasn't ever even meant for retirement for people. And I believe like many economists, it's bad as we have seen since early 1980
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    • How much wealth inequality would you contribute to the masses centralizing money together to pushup these companies in hopes of scraps and low taxes come time
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    • to check out.The big winners of the law are politicians, corps, and banks. However when inequality gets high, or a big pop, i also expect gov to seize the fund
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    • guys like bernie would love to distribute retirement funds.
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    • and another thing on the unicorn IPO. are you investing because you see future value in a company? Or just chasing trends like trading beanie babies while that
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    • shit is hot, knowing there is no real inherent value. It won't last and plan to sell before it crashes. Personally I find that as the destructive kind of
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    • greed. Chasing real value for personal greed is fine, but shortterm should be frowned upon. But it is what it is.
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    • that's what I thought, you can't name a single government incentive for investing in an IPOmonospaced
    • what your'e talking about is how retirement funds are now in private equity, and yes, that's scary as fuckmonospaced
    • the WHOLE POINT of investing in a unicorn is to gamble ... SOMETIMES it's because you believe it's going to grow, but mostly to win on the hypemonospaced
    • the reason tehy're called unicorns is because they're mythical ... billion dollar valuations for no actual value. But still not incentivized or tax deferredmonospaced
    • no bailout exists for a company going under, and if someone loses on the market, that's their problem. No gov will get involved.monospaced
    • I'm more concerned with gov incentives that promote destructive behavior. The passive investment of people who have been promised compounding returns on tax
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    • free money. It should be removed because it sets a system up of gambling on insane hype by a very small few. Responsible investment is no longer existent
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    • Like buffet said it is hard to find value right now with everything over bought. Plus I think if people look at "real" savings. Not the balance of a 401K...
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    • Because that money doesn't count until you have it out. And if people see the real numbers they might think a little more about inflation. or one can hope..
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    • and as far as companies being bailed out. they have been in the past. look at all the auto companies. bear sterns, all the banks with QE. Just depends on
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    • the political damage. And I think when this blows you will see another larger wealth grab, which could very well swing politics in a very bad way.
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    • ha. i just realized you think i didnt name single gov incentive for investing in an IPO. glossed over it because I couldnt imagine someone not
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    • understanding the incentives.. crazy. And not sure what you mean retirement funds are in private equity. What else would they be in treasuries?
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    • what do you think the revenue act of 1978 is if not a direct gov incentive? do you have different definition of gov incentive?
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