Politics

Out of context: Reply #29152

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    whoo hoo no individual mandate. no more paying an extra 2.5%. now only if they lift the bullshit laws defining short-term healthcare and time limits. Since april 1 i've seen my state provider options pretty much drop from 10-12 to 2. And coverage went from awesome and cheap, to obamacare bronze levels @ 2-3x the cost.

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    • I'm a Type 1 Diabetic. GFY.mathinc
    • you know math if people paid for insulin and other materials like i pay for my contact solution and didnt rely on insurances to broker prices it would be alot
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    • cheaper.
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    • @deathboy That fact that you would think to compare your contact lens solution with someone's insulin says a lot about your sense of entitlement.
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    • no NB it says you are sensitive to entitlement and not market force economics. If our car insurance was to cover tires, oil changes, and all basic maintenance
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    • when consumers directly pay for services and items prices go down. with insurance paying for it there is no market to determine price of items
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    • why the prices of such things have skyrocketed vs cost less with more efficient technologies.
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    • if that somehow seems to be a statement of entitlement than im guessing you just dont get shit.
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    • "with insurance paying for it there is no market to determine price of items"
      ??? LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL
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    • Do you know what a market is?
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    • anyways where is my pity that i have to pay about 2200 tax for choosing a better care plan than obamacare, and seeing my choice shrink, quality drop, price
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    • increase. I cant even be responsible and have an HSA. Well I still am responsible and save for such possibilities like a broken arm or wrist, just no tax break
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    • No NB I dont know what a market is. Explain to me how insurance companies are the best market force for determining the price of things?
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    • Or walk me through the reasons for increasing hard costs of medical supplies? Maybe a little in the supply and demand of it or how price discovery works
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    • Oh, now suddenly there IS a market? You're contradicting yourself, bud.
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    • omfg this is really how they think?monospaced
    • I didn't contradict myself. To your question "Do u know what a market is". I said no. In an attempt to see how you think costs are being driven higher and
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    • get an idea on wether you have any sense of the matter or not. OVER
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    • and mono your statement about these people. id love for you to define who they are. because as I see it im a person who doesnt like the increase in healthcare
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    • and being forced to pay for something that I have no control over. technically these people would be me and math
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    • OVER
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    • what hard research have you done to support your idea that insurance co.s are to blame for higher healthcare costs? be concise.dorf
    • Well it's not ONLY insurance. But for this one common sense price discovery, and real world examples. https://opinionator.…
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    • i could use like a 100 of these comments to explain how there is no price discovery, a great example is imagine you pay 500 a month for groceries at the store
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    • you can have whatever you want. What would people choose? How will the people start pricing the products they put in the store. Will your dog have steak every
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    • night. Will a box of generic cheerios now cost the same as regular cheerios? If the store has to keep stocked why not rise prices.
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    • between the article and that really brief explanation does it make sense? And that is just the basics. Hospitals and insurance co's that dotn own each other
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    • can inflate prices, worse if they own each other. there was some appectemy scenarios where it cost 200K, from hospital but insurance settled for like 125K
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    • and those prices were set high for a larger settlement savings gap because than they get more public funds or money from gov. not to mention i think appectomy
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    • costs like 8k i believe. so there is a lot of redtape being gamed, and us none the wiser because we dont see any pricing or real world price discovery
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    • OVER
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    • and if you look at healthcare costs increase after 1965 you begin to see another big culprit. Medicare. Another 0 price discovery system for the consumer. A
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    • small group of people, probably filled with lobbyists trying to decide prices of certain things. Than there is medical advancements keeping ppl walking dead for
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    • years on the public tit, and cost is no option mentality. which is a culture thing on how we perceive death. But any price discovery for consumer will help
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    • OVER
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    • 10-4, do you think hospitals, etc. should be legally required to display the cost for services? if so that is probably not an "open market" idea. OVER.dorf
    • i also asked for hard research and all you've provided is an opinion article. OVER.dorf
    • deathboy, king of the sidenotes and word salads. OVER.Ramanisky2
    • dorf sounds like you don't want me to be right. at article isn't opinion when its talking or real world examples. how much evidence would you like?
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    • the fact is if the majority of ppl use insurance the insurance and hospital agree on cost. And they are going to agree to costs much higher than normal ppl
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    • holy shit this is really how they thinkmonospaced
    • would pay. That's common sense. Why would they look out for your interests when they can raise rates and slowly pass the cost on to everyone.
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    • https://surgerycente…
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    • https://object.cato.…
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    • but really dorf how much research are you willing to read? You want half page summarizations? or books?
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    • Can you really say you are interested? OVER
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    • over and out?monospaced
    • Nope not yet. I was just about to close out, but didn't see dorfs question. Its interesting. I don't believe hospitals should be required to display pricing.
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    • cost of regulating and "accurately" providing pricing when so many different insurances pay differently. the surgery center does because they dont have
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    • insurance providers. it was be a great intention but i think it would create a ton of confusion and tax payer cost. i'd much see tax incentives removed for
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    • employer based coverage. and get rid of penalties if employers don't provide it. this would also help make people the consumer. so many ppl who get coverage
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    • only from work do not see the real costs. That would enable people to be paid more also and than they can put that money where its important to them
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    • after all the employer based health insurance is just a fuck up from wwII wage freezes. was great for a third party market though and to obfuscate costs
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    • OVER
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    • of course any suggestion I'd make come to fix stuff comes with a sting. The correction will hurt. I and others said obamacare would not control costs but drive
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    • them higher. it always was a political piece to look cheaper through short term subsidization, but insurers new it was a win and why they were onboard
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    • to keep putting of the hurt will make the correction hurt that much more. this mandate removal is going to hurt, and prices probably rise that much higher
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    • without subsidization and people will stop paying for insurance. no insurance people need direct, but if hospitals keep prices high, they lose out too.
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    • price discovery and corrections. but more sad stories before it stabilizes. Cancer people probably wont have a chance with price correction if poor.
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    • or they might have better chances. cheaper older therapies that are only .01% less effective but 100 times cheaper. u never know
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    • there would be incentive to capitalize not on the best and most expensive, but what works for price point. you see it in other nations all the time. OVER
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    • o_0monospaced
    • remove insurance, employer benefits, etc. and somehow a for profit industry will lower their prices?dorf
    • yup. if policy creates incentives to provide services not desired you get an bubble. why should we need hc for everything except detrimental care
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    • most probably dont need it. but employers inflate costs by offering it for what seems to be cheap compared to market, but those costs subsidized from salaries
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    • most of all transactions are for profits (including non profits) and competition drives prices down. that is a historical fact
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    • if u look at insulin or cost of diabetes which this started out about. what factors have driven up costs? technology? supply? less demand?
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    • why would a vial of insulin produced in the 80 cost 35-40 now cost 275-300. Inflation of our dollar? ha no. It because of what systems will pay that
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    • and those are insurances paying those prices, subsidized by a majority, artificially creating higher prices while taking their profit off the top, in a loop
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    • Homosexuality / paedophilia, now contact lenses / insulin. You're a fucking bawheid, pal. Like, I wouldn't piss on you if you were on fire *and* you paid me.face_melter
    • bitcoin objective based currency that also allows people to transfer directly without 2.9% transaction fees of middlemen. we see the middleman there yet ignore
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    • him and his methods of driving costs higher in healthcare. maybe bc we told to think of banks bad and all hc good. i could also tell you stories of my local
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    • hospital who also owns the insurance company that the majority of employer based insurance uses around here. how they attempted a monopoly on pre obamacare rule
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    • that said the more unified and control the more dollars, resulting in a nasty pr job about their acquiring all heart doctors in town
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    • and a lawsuit resulting in ceo stepping down and doctors leaving area to practice elsewhere. i assure you im no armchair quarter back on what i spit
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    • its more real world happenings than theory and hypotheticals, which is far different than the acqb's that say but healthcare is a right and disregards everythin
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    • in between OVER
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    • and its not to say insurance isnt a scam. its a logical gamble. but still a gamble. to think of it otherwise defeats the point of insurance and creates somethi
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    • ng different. my awesome plan better than obama care for reference was 1k out of pocket on me no matter what up front. no deductibles on meds or shit
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    • after that a 20/80 for the next 1000 I spend. After that they cover me for 2 million to any doctor anywhere even abroad.
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    • and this was for 80 a month. compare that to obamacare cheap plan that ..i didnt write down.. is 375 a month. covers basically nothing until the 6500 deductible
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    • is met with a max of around 7400. and has to be in network. of the two which would you spend your money on?
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    • to me it seems obvious. i think if ppl given the choice they'd agree and be better off. the problem is its not obamacare insurance so you get taxed
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    • however if u crunch the numbers you see that plan + paying tax is still cheaper than obamacare. so since april 1st rules kicked in
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    • u see the regulations making it harder for competition, price increases all to "push" people into volunteering to pay for obamacare
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    • this next year i was forecasting to break about even on non obamacare plans with rate hikes and lack of tax incentives and ind mandates
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    • as a responsible consumer who believes his dollar vote matters the most I would even weather a small loss before being forced to support a failing system
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    • but the reversal of the individual mandate now strips the BS "incentives" for a obamacare program and allows me more freedom to get a better plan
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    • Now only if they will revert the rules denying the competition to obamacare. more choice at less cost and people think thats wrong? strange. OVER
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    • It's so sick that this is how they actually think.monospaced
    • deathboy 'Word Salad' extraordinaireRamanisky2
    • https://i.giphy.com/…whatthefunk
    • your underlying assumption that healthcare can be treated as a commodity is incorrect. without ins. people would be charged the higher prices and it woulddorf
    • create huge profit margins for the healthcare industry. as a for-profit industry, they would be shooting themselves in the foot if they lowered their prices.dorf
    • lastly, why didn't you keep your $80 plan?dorf
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