Politics
Politics
Out of context: Reply #24736
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- Ramanisky21
- i don't see a downside to a normalisation of relations with Russia. Long-term it's in all our benefit. Or am I missing something < here?detritus
- When the barn door is open and the horse has fucked off...what's left to normalize?see_thru
- it could be interpreted as a normalisation/tacit acceptance of authoritarian dictatorships and put a premature kibosh on democracy for one thing..BuddhaHat
- "...non-interference in each other's domestic affairs." They must mean in relation to running ones personal home and not election type country stuffkona
- after Russian actions in the Ukraine it could also be seen as acceptance of Russia's right to seek to re-take other land that was previously under its controlBuddhaHat
- and a whole bunch of people in Eastern Europe might have something to say about that...BuddhaHat
- ^ Bingokona
- I agree that better relations between 2 world powers would be a better outcome, but not with King Vlad on the throne. His vision is of dominance, not community.BuddhaHat
- and would, in all probability, run counter to many of the great points made in your article above on the 'Great Enrichment'BuddhaHat
- Sorry, I only see Russian actions in their local sphere as relevant in a local sense as is American exceptionalism in its own.
...detritus - Tsar Putin aside, Russia shouldn't be our enemy or nemesis. We fucked her over in the nineties, we need to make up for that.detritus
- american exceptionalism has its challenges, no doubt, but I still think a huge chasm exists between the present Russian political mentality and that of the USBuddhaHat
- A few too many people would have a hard time putting 'Tsar Putin aside' at this point in time, I think. It's a different flavour to the US' anti-democratic...BuddhaHat
- antics in other parts of the world (Latin America), and could be seen as more pronounced or sinister... I'm not saying it is, but it could be seen that way.BuddhaHat
- The US also does have things to answer for in terms of Russia's changes in the 90s, but wouldn't you say it had pre-existing underlying problems with itsBuddhaHat
- political structure and behaviour at that point anyway?BuddhaHat
- it could be, sure, but I think it's only us who see it like that. I don't want to be an apologist for them — I often think they'e assholes ...detritus
- ... but then so are we. Judged by ther absolutes of our own metrics, they're no worse than we are, clawing back what they can in the world.detritus
- I'd rather work with that kind of — possibly utterly mental — entity, than against it.detritus
- it's always good to have someone take a rational and opposing position in an argument to help expand one's views on these things, but to analogize...BuddhaHat
- I'd call it a frog and scorpion type situation at the moment, with an extremely high probability of getting stung.BuddhaHat
- I just don't see them as expansionist.
At all. Consolidating, absolutely — but expansionist? They know they can't afford it. As do we.detritus - Syria and Crimea are their two pathways to blue seas coverage. They are absolutely critical to Her Being. NATO expansionism threatens both. Why?detritus
- have to agree with detritusfadein11
- you're right fadein, detritus makes an extremely strong case, and as someone with less exposure to Eastern European politics I really appreciate hearing...BuddhaHat
- this point of view; call it media influence or what you will, but I still hold deep mistrust of the Russian leadership at the moment, and I don't feel like...BuddhaHat
- Russian culture generally speaking is in step with the rest of Europe at the moment, or farther afield.BuddhaHat
- and were they given the opportunity to re-join at diplomatic levels, I'm pessimistic towards their inclinations to adjust accordingly.BuddhaHat
- As an aside, this has to be hands down the best back and forth I've had in the Politics thread in as long as I can remember. Cheers detritus.BuddhaHat
- Oh, don't get me wrong — Russia as-is now is a fucking basket case. But the only path I can see as being logical is one of engagement; ...detritus
- ... One of empowering without meddling.
We meddle too much, far too much.detritus - 'clink BuddaHat :)detritus
- @buddha - same mistrust of Putin here but I don't think he is the aggressor he is made out to be and certainly not on a US scalefadein11
- @fadein, that probably goes back to my comment on media influence, in the majority of English-speaking sources he's painted as the evil one, no doubt.BuddhaHat
- Watching too many vids on liveleak re: Russian warfare & atrocities, street violence etc has probably had an effect on my position as well. They're pretty dark.BuddhaHat