UK in/out Europe?
Out of context: Reply #45
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- detritus4
The problem with the whole immigration debate is that EVERYONE in power is fundamentally lying about the issue.
Our economic model is predicated on the assumption that there will alway be an underclass of some sort to pay poorly to do all the shit work 'we' don't want to.
That won't change if we stay, that won't change if we leave.
That underclass is currently made up of comparatively poor immigrants - most of whom now come via the EU, most of whom within that tranche are actually from the EU. 'Most'.
If we leave we'll close off one route for people to come over, but still have a need for people to come over, so the borders will open to people from everywhere else, beyond Europe.
To be crass for a second - there will be more 'brown' people filling that gap than European 'white' people.
This is not what the right wing, the brexiteers, the Farage brigade want. This is not their preferred option, because the immigration debate is obviously an unstated racial and nationalistic one. The face of Britain has changed these last decades and will continue to do so, and no one since Enoch Powell has really engaged in the conversation, for better or worse, 'why' this is happening.
So, these people wanting the 'right sort' of immigration are being delusional by wanting to leave Europe.
Frankly, I think the debate about mass-immigration is important and does need addressing, but it is a super-European debate, it is a fundamental economic philosophical debate and one that no one - NO ONE - wants to go anywhere near.
The whole mess is an intractable knot of shit and is going to get a lot worse whether we stay or whether we go.
- Nicely put. I think this is what I was trying to say earlier. Like you say, this referendum will not bring debate about any of the important subjects.Ianbolton
- I sometimes get those sociopathic ideas about leaving to fuck everything up, to hopefully force more pressing discussionsIanbolton
- downvoted for mention of Enoch Powellfadein11
- You are kidding, I hope?detritus
- nope - what are you on about - noone has engaged with immigration? 1. Enoch Powell was a total racist scumbag. 2. Farage has engaged with it on a daily basisfadein11
- for the last 5 years.fadein11
- I can't think how a response could have more ruthlessly efficiently have made my point for me, thanks Fadein.detritus
- Perhaps actually read what I wrote, and try and understand it. Perhaps read all of what Powell actually wrote, not what you've had distilled to you.detritus
- chill due - people can disagree. Read Enoch Powell - no thanks. Sorry disagree with what you have said and I have now read it twice.fadein11
- a few too many sweeping statements for me. 1. EU immigrants do not just do the jobs Britsh 'natives' do not want to do. 2. "mass immigration" - what are youfadein11
- referring to here?fadein11
- we are probably on the same side - just disagree with some points made.fadein11
- I'm not sure you can actually disagree because you're misinterpreting what I'm saying and basing your opinion on a misconception. Oh well.detritus
- I get your point but I disagree. Chill your boots.fadein11
- "brown faces" do not come into the immigration debate. We have a long history of asian immigrants who have thrived here. The recent debate and problem withfadein11
- immigrations has been with white Europeans - i.e. Polish for example - arriving and doing a better job for way less money - this angered the average Sun readingfadein11
- white working man - they lost money. Race doesn't come into it - it's economics. I wholeheartedly disagree with this attitude and it is all part of a so calledfadein11
- free market. Have a read of The Buddha of Suburbia if you haven't - gives some great insight into the experiences of immigrants in Britain.fadein11
- I thought the crass 'brown' faces argument was if we left, more non-europeans would be making their way here?Ianbolton
- That's exactly what detritus just said?********