religion

Out of context: Reply #1659

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  • Morning_star3

    @ chukkaphob

    _So why do bad/horrible things happen to good people?

    The universe doesn't know what 'good' and 'bad' are, it just is. For instance, the cancer cells that destroy a 3 year olds brain don't know what 'good' and 'bad' are, they just do what they have evolved to do. How good and bad are interpreted is purely human and subjective. Because of this, your question essentially makes no sense as 'bad/horrible/good' are relative and subjective.

    _What's heaven like?

    Which one? Valhalla, Hades, Arcadia, Shamayim etc. Your question also assumes human 'souls' survive death in some way. Do they? And how would you know if they did?

    _Why isn't there only one god and only one religion for all humans on earth to believe in?

    Geographically humans required explanations for different events that were beyond their comprehension. The 'god of the gaps' changes depending on your circumstances.

    Morning_star 3Permalink
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    • so which god you have depends on which one is convenient to you.pango
    • pretty much.Morning_star
    • An accident of birth.Morning_star
    • Some people are good, death is bad, all people will die.
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    • What is 'good'? Death is a process and neither good or bad. 'People' don't die, rather, a biological machine stops working.Morning_star
    • Death is good. it's the most important part of our life. it makes us value our life more than if we were to live forever.pango
    • and it arguably gives us a sense of time. a sense of urgency.pango
    • Homo sapiens sapiens then. I think it's fair to say that death is seen as something bad by the vast majority. I was actually agreeing with you.
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    • My point was that we as homo sapiens sapiens assign moral values to events that objectively have none (your cancer cells analogy).
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    • To me death is good as well, it sublimates life.
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    • But we are talking about generic answers to generic questions.
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    • ya like i said. there's no such a thing as good and bad, or evil. it's all subjective, perception and interpretation.pango
    • You're right O0O0O0. Apologies for jumping to the wrong conclusion. Answering these types of question successfully requires a limited and predefined...Morning_star
    • ... context.Morning_star
    • S'all good.
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    • Spot on Morning. Good summary.monospaced
    • Surely you've misread the first question, and are agreeing with the point it was making.
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    • He meant it as in 'why do bad things happen to good people, if there is a God'.....
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    • as in - there is no God with the personality traits of a man that is able to see and judge all of our lives.
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    • Which is obviously true to anyone with even a small cluster of brain cells
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    • Thanks Set. Although i think the framing of questions like these is fundamental. For instance, what is Good? what is Bad? which God? If the god in question...Morning_star
    • ...assumed the traits of Kali, Set ;), Astarte it becomes a very different proposition.Morning_star
    • A virus or parasite that might cause a human suffering is just trying to survive. Just like we, as a species, are doing. We are this planet's sufferin parasite.Projectile
    • on highest level, the universe responds equally to both forces in use of its natural laws. but both forces exist in a lower level. good n evil.yurimon
    • That's an interest point Yuri. The existence of G&E is debatable and IMO beyond definition as they are truely relative and entirely subjective. Could you...Morning_star
    • ...define 'evil' without referencing
      a human act?      Morning_star
    • without humans to ponder them, good and evil wouldn't exist or be definedmonospaced
    • actually, I take that back... I feel like many social animals (great apes, dolphins, etc) have a sense of kinship, which is "akin" to good/evil conceptsmonospaced
    • I am only a little high right now.monospaced
    • C'mon dude.
      Puff, puff, pass.      Morning_star
    • Its an energy force, from a holistic point of view you cant take the human element out of the equation, because there is a relationship even though its rootsyurimon
    • not in this reality. its has qualities, more of a energy thing. you can feel if you are sensitive enough. some it is resonance of bad things happening in theyurimon
    • past at a specific places. so there are elements of interaction with people n influence sometimes if you are weak. this gets into more of greek culture of musesyurimon
    • now we are finding out human brain is a filter or antenna scientifically. its just a semantic thing or bias of how people interpret archetypes in myths thatyurimon
    • energetic qualities in nature. the whole reductionist theory and how irrelevant emotions are in certain aspects of human interaction with internal, externalyurimon
    • elements holds back the progress between understanding subtle energies and their cause n effect.yurimon
    • I don't know about animals Mono. G&E actions require perspective/review to assign a moral judgement. Chimps that attack and murder rival troup members..Morning_star
    • ...don't have that 'moral' review to their actions. It's instinct, 'in built' without guilt. I think G&E only exist as a human concept.Morning_star
    • you will see as science progresses and people start to understand again the past philosophies n observations in mysticism. you already see quantum physicsyurimon
    • mirror some of the old explanations.yurimon
    • yurimon, are you a primate? it's weird because you talk about the human brain, but claim you might not be onemonospaced
    • Also, just because you think evil/good are forces does not remotely make that true. There's absolutely no evidence for that or that we can sense them.monospaced
    • it's a cute perception and concept, but certainly unprovable and about as far from the current state of reality as anyone can get, based on what we knowmonospaced
    • I didnt make this up bro. also just because you have been lead to believe certain things under the umbrella of reason or normal doesnt make it true.yurimon
    • first of all you are assuming you are the peak of your human senses or perceptions which is false. fairly interaction with subtle forces is pretty new as faryurimon
    • as science is concerned. however was an awareness in consciousness from the past that understood subtle forces, or by products of energy fields.yurimon
    • you may not agree with their methods but its something that is being borrowed from now in science.yurimon
    • Yuri, I can empathise with your perspective regarding human sensitivity to 'fields and energies'. However, it's still subjective, i don't think you can say...Morning_star
    • ...something is 'evil or good' by definition. It is personal interpretation that brings meaning to the event.Morning_star
    • i hear what you are saying but its just semantics. if it had a scientific name to it maybe more credible? I dont think in this being subjective is bad becauseyurimon
    • if something effects us in some way it still will be judged as positive or negative to our well being.yurimon
    • affects*
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    • Yuri, I disagree. If you accept that human conciousness has the ability to receive and transmit information through a shared field, that still doesn't allow...Morning_star
    • ...for interpretation. My evil and your evil will be different although we may be processing the same information.Morning_star
    • @Morning_star My questions implied exactly the answers you provided. "Good" & "Bad," God, and religions are all man-made.chukkaphob
    • Cool.Morning_star
    • the simple precept that life/order is good and destruction/chaos is bad is the natural condition among all living things. it is shortsighted and arrogant to thi
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    • think humans made up good and evil. it exists on a cellular level
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    • has nothing to do with morality, i think that's where the miscommunications occur. morality is subjective, order and chaos are not
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    • How do you define the celular evil you mention. Is it physical?, encoded in DNA?Morning_star
    • entropy
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    • Ok. What i consider evil and what you consider evil could be different although we may be processing the same information. It IS a moral judgement...Morning_star
    • check out the works of ilya prigozhin on the matter, specifically how thermo applies to this convo. if you want more clarification i can suggest further reading
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    • ..Entropy, on the other hand is, well defined and not subject to interpretation. How are these the same?Morning_star
    • Thanks Gilgamush. I shall investigate.Morning_star
    • ill give an example of energetic qualities and a human sensitivity. a new business moves in to a place. everything looks nice but its not doing well.yurimon
    • the owner gets a recommends for a guy to come in. he walks in feels around and says there was a fire here some one died.yurimon
    • im thinking wtf. serious as witness? later he does some rituals. blah blah. i come in next day try to observe and have to say something changed not sure what.yurimon
    • I notice people who havent known anything have walked in an say how nice the place was, as before people werent so pepped up to be their. somehow on ayurimon
    • subconscious level respond to the clearing. so out of curiosity i went to the guy several places to see what he does. and somehow everytime there was a turnyurimon
    • around and in some places the owners were surprised at what he knew from just feeling in that no one knew but them. and trying to observe how subtle events ofyurimon
    • the past can effect people on level they are not aware of in places.yurimon
    • so the first business i mentioned turned around for better without anything other action but people feeling better when entering.yurimon
    • My 3 questions were strictly rhetorical. Haha!chukkaphob
    • Strange shit happens, i agree. However, my point is that taking your particular example, if you a number of people who were sensitive to the 'vibe' I would...Morning_star
    • ...guarantee that they wouldn't come up with the same information. They may tap into the same information but how they interpret it will differ.Morning_star
    • chukaphobia, dont be scared just because you have poor relationship with your innerds doesnt mean there is no merit in the question. derpyurimon
    • still morning star. interpretation is valid if it was based on facts that happened of past events. just as accurate as a scientific instrument of its true.yurimon
    • in most cases our instincts and senses can are instruments.yurimon
    • There's the crux, "if it's true".Morning_star
    • Yet Yurimon still can't provide a convincing evidence using science or none science method.pango
    • M_ss, I am working off the self evident truth that life itself is good. Life is the representation of the pinnacle of order therefore order is good get my jist?
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    • *m_s
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    • And I'm sorry to say it Yuri, but all that supernatural shit is pure charletonry. All that misticism is custom made for people too soft to approach things using
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    • The scientific method. People who indulge in feelings rather than logic
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    • Lol, even pango recognizes it. Though then again, my mother swore she had witnessed a supernatural occurance so I don't look down on those who believe
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    • Of course I recognize it! I'm the master of bullshit! No shit escapes me!pango
    • not true. you havent had experience or met individuals with skills, sensitivity.. it all comes from religion anyway.yurimon
    • How do you know if the guy has skill or high sensitivity? Back to the same question I guess. And again your perception on my experience is just an assumption.pango
    • where can i find these persons of skill that you speak of yuri, we live fairly close to one another, maybe i will take the time
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    • you want to go to india? not sure if hes alive still. he was old but could read what you thinking. some craz sheit.yurimon
    • ohhhhh you one of those who went to india.pango
    • I went lots o places. people with skills, ive been lucky to meet. so my experience with certain phenomenon is more then most.yurimon
    • Yuri, do you think that under scientific protocol these guys would be able to reproduce the effect?Morning_star
    • maybe, maybe not. science can deal with certain aspects or anomalies in nature, people. its to dismissive. it talk about not having emotion or bias but thenyurimon
    • goes on to dismiss something that is witnessed or observed. wtf?yurimon
    • you have to do better then that for a field of study. yeah its optimal for dealing with reductionist material aspects but fails on other ways.yurimon
    • doesnt deal well when people tap into an ability or anomalous behavior or events that dont fall into its extreme views.yurimon
    • doesnt mean the peoples emotions are not worthy of being senses for truth either. just because modern society is so divided and disconnected inside to tap thisyurimon
    • consciousness or human potential, doesn't mean its not accurate. plenty of times people change a course out instincts which results in avoiding accidents oryurimon
    • harm. so how can you argue if there is something greater to our senses if you are properly in-tune with them? this is part of mysticism? metaphysics?yurimon
    • mothers that feel something happened to a child when there is some distance between them. these are all real and exist in the human realm but are brushed off byyurimon
    • a system that is supposed to be unbiased to observation?yurimon
    • All that falls into the study of neurobiology. There is a lot of work to be done in that field
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    • it also falls under some types of mysticism the same.yurimon
    • meh, that kind of discourse falls into the realm of philology and theology which are interesting in their own right i suppose
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    • 100SFA
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    • 100SFA!!pango
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