Politics
Out of context: Reply #8817
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...It would have been impossible for Madoff to carry out a fraud scheme over some 20 years without an array of financial institutions and highly placed individuals in both Wall Street and Washington who were his enablers....
http://www.wsws.org/articles/200…
even socialist websites can provide some insight of the combo of gov authority and business.
However dont miss the fact that the article ignores personal responsibility of the individuals greedy or not trying to gain huge returns while ignoring the reasons or the how that make it possible. and then calling them victims of capitalism. in the same way then all gamblers are victims of sports like basketball/football/roulette that lose money betting on such things. are we then to judge all casinos, sports and everything that can be betted on as evil.
hopefully no one will get the wrong idea about the conclusion of the article to sell its agenda and can see the contradictions in such thought. but mainly to illustrate the role a gov has in such business. and when the business collapse the role the government plays in blaming free markets while demanding more power/money/control with hollow promises of it never happening again. and usually will only happen again but on a larger scale then the last. very wolf in sheeps clothing scam, that ends in ruins.
so as long as the idea is popular that everyone are these helpless victims of terrible evil, and ignore the personal responsibility and or actions that individuals take, expect more of the same.
Also here is some good writing that should be read.
http://www.capmag.com/article.as…- Government is only useful if it can prevent guys like Madoff from abusing their power. The fact that it failed to do that, is like a cop who stood by and did nothing while a store was being robbed.ukit
- a cop who stood by and did nothing while a store was being robbed.ukit
- Does that mean we get rid of cops and robberies will end? Of course not, we just need the cop and the government in this case to do a better job.ukit
- to do a better job.ukit
- i can see that view. but its more a cop paid not to act. what kind of cop would jsut watch a robbery withotu a motive********
- what im sayign is if u do the gov+biz you will always have corruption and both sides are partners in crime.********
- equally responsible, and in this case so are the individuals equally responsible with greed to get rich without knowing how********
- and i question the motives of the gov in its role to play the part as the savior when they contributed********
- but whats more important is the last link. may help cast off soem conditioned delusions********
- oh and on that cop. mistakes happen, but its not a mistake over a long period of time with multiple instances********
- I didn't say it was a mistake, I mean sure maybe the cop or the government in this example is corrupt, but that doesn't have any real implication for the role of government in general.ukit
- real implication for the role of government in general. Any organization can be corrupt, that doesn't mean you have to do away with it or scale it back.ukit
- away with it. My POV has always been that we need to separate business interests like Madoff from having to strong an influence on the people who are supposed to regulate them. To go back to my analogy, right now you have a system where it's relatively easy for a rich enough robber to bride the cop. Your solution to that is what, to scale back the cop's authority? Mine would be, make it illegal for these kinds of people to have this much influence.ukit
- influence on the people who are supposed to regulate them.ukit
- yea i understand. gov is necessary in parts but to think theyre the security is an illusion. and the illusion makes it easyier for the thieves********
- it easyier for the thieves. in no way am i stating an instacne and declaring the whole evil, i dont do that********
- To go back to my analogy, right now you have a system where a rich enough robber can bride the cop. Your solution to that is what, to get rid of all the cops? Doesn't make much sense.ukit
- but the less the opportunity for corruption the less you will have********
- So the less cops there are the less there are to bride? And you think that will lead to no crime? I think the answer is pretty obvious. It's not a question of less government, but separating special interest influence from it.ukit
- and also place blame where it should be instead of on the idea of "capitalism"********
- obvious LOL. You don't need less government, you need to cut the connection between government and the people like Madoff.ukit
- Madoff - or Enron, to take another recent exampleukit
- It has nothing to do with pro or anti government, which is pretty silly anyway, government is just a means to an endukit
- Anyway, this example is a pretty bad one for your argument because from what I could see in that article, the SEC didn't take an proactive action that helped Madoff - they just didn't investigate him as soon as they should have. So less government would have had zero effect in this case.ukit
- a proactive action that helped Madoff - they just didn't investigate him as soon as they should have. So less government would have had zero effect in this case.ukit
- would have had zero effect in this case. In fact you'd almost certainly have about 50 Bernie Madoffs with no SEC.ukit
- unless there was no sec illusion of safety, people would then need to take their own precautions. and he would have been smoked out long before********
- have been smoked out long before********
- and yes not the greatest example, but jsut one of so many used for power grabs********