zeitgeist
Out of context: Reply #13
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- gramme0
Mimio, whatever the case may be with Collins, I wonder what sort of rebuttal an atheist could find for this tidbit:
"During a debate with the biologist Richard Dawkins, Collins stated that God is the explanation of those features of the universe that science finds difficult to explain (such as the values of certain physical constants favoring life), and that God himself does not need an explanation since he is beyond the universe. Dawkins called this "the mother and father of all cop-outs" and "an incredible evasion of the responsibility to explain", to which Collins responded "I do object to the assumption that anything that might be outside of nature is ruled out of the conversation. That's an impoverished view of the kinds of questions we humans can ask, such as 'Why am I here?', 'What happens after we die?' If you refuse to acknowledge their appropriateness, you end up with a zero probability of God after examining the natural world because it doesn't convince you on a proof basis. But if your mind is open about whether God might exist, you can point to aspects of the universe that are consistent with that conclusion."
(taken from the wikipedia pg. you linked)
- Why the need to rebut it? it's his personal observation/belief. There's no empirical foundation for an argument.Mimio
- nice quote, well said by Collins.designbot
- what did he really say though? he made a value statement about believing in the supernatural as a better way to live.Mimio
- ...live.Mimio
- His point was that if you're definition of "truth" falls only under naturalism there is no room left for even the idea of God.designbot
- God.designbot
- It's simple things that don't exist ...don't exist. It's a lie to pretend they do and that you have special knowledge of them.Mimio
- ...of them.Mimio
- But is it not arrogant to make assumptions about the supernatural? There's nothing logically untenable about God.gramme
- lies and faith are not the same thing by any stretch of the imagination, whether you acknowledge faith or not.gramme
- "The two fundamental tenets of true atheism are One: There is no God. Two: I hate Him." -Doug Wilsongramme
- So what about the things that are yet to be discovered? Do they exist?designbot
- designbot, how could I say? The point is... that it's wrong for me to pretend to know.Mimio
- Well I see what your saying Mimio, but having faith in evidence is different than pretending.designbot
- It really isn't. it's just an idea at that point. Hypothesis is too good of a word to apply too.Mimio