The Art is War II
Out of context: Reply #402
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- Point50
Confusion at noon and midnight
Style Midnight
(start of day) Noon Midnight
(end of day)
24-hour clock, ISO 8601 00:00 12:00 24:00
Most digital 24-hour clocks 00:00 12:00 —
12-hour digital clocks
with a.m. and p.m. * 12:00 a.m. 12:00 p.m. —
U.S. Government Printing Office — 12 a.m. 12 p.m.
Antiquated † 12:00 m.n. 12:00 m. 12:00 m.n.
Canadian Press
UK standard
NIST1 † midnight noon midnight
NIST2 † 12:00 Midnight 12:00 Noon 12:00 Midnight
Associated Press Style[7] 12:01 a.m. noon midnight
U.S. de facto legal 12:01 a.m. — 11:59 p.m.
Encyclopædia Britannica[1] Midnight
December 11-12 12m Midnight
December 12-13
* Digital clocks and computers, when set to the 12-hour system, appear to show the times 12 a.m. and 12 p.m., as in this chart.
† These standards are ambiguous with respect to the whether midnight is at the start and or end of each day.Since the Latin word meridies means noon or midday, it is illogical to refer to noon as either "12 a.m." ("12 ante meridiem", or "12 o'clock before noon") or as "12 p.m." ("12 post meridiem", or "12 o'clock after noon"). On the other hand, midnight could logically be called either "12 p.m." (12 post meridiem, 12 hours after the previous noon) or "12 a.m." (12 ante meridiem, 12 hours before the following noon); "x a.m." no longer means "x hours before noon", but "x hours into the day but before noon" or "x th hour before noon".
The National Maritime Museum, Greenwich, states:
To avoid confusion, the correct designation for twelve o'clock is 12 noon or 12 midnight. Alternatively, the twenty-four-hour-clock system may be used. The abbreviation a.m. stands for ante-meridiem (before the Sun has crossed the line) and p.m. for post-meridiem (after the Sun has crossed the line). At 12 noon the Sun is at its highest point in the sky and directly over the meridian. It is therefore neither "ante-" nor "post-".[8]
However, as discussed elsewhere in the same reference, the Sun is highest at 12 noon local Solar time, not 12 noon civil time, the difference being given by the equation of time [9] plus the effect of time zones.
In the United States, noon is often called "12:00 p.m." and midnight "12:00 a.m.". With this convention, thinking of "12" as "0" makes the system logical.
The American Heritage Dictionary of the English Language (Fourth Edition, 2000) has a similar usage note on this topic: "Strictly speaking, 12 a.m. denotes midnight, and 12 p.m. denotes noon, but there is sufficient confusion over these uses to make it advisable to use 12 noon and 12 midnight where clarity is required."[10]
Two separate official style documents of the United States government disagree on the correct usage. The 30th edition of the U.S. Government Style Manual (2008) sections 9.54 and 12.9b recommends the use of "12:00 a.m." for midnight and "12:00 p.m." for noon[11]. The 29th edition of the U.S. Government Printing Office Style Manual section 12.9 from 2000 recommends the opposite the use of "12 p.m." for midnight and "12 a.m." (formerly "12 m.") for noon.[12]
Many U.S. style guides (including the NIST website) recommend that it is clearest if one refers to "noon" or "12:00 noon" and "midnight" or "12:00 midnight" (rather than to "12:00 p.m." and "12:00 a.m.", respectively). Some other style guides suggest "12:00 n" for noon and "12:00 m" for midnight,[13] but that conflicts with the older tradition of using "12:00 m" for noon[1](Latin meridies), and "12:00 mn" for midnight (Latin media nox).
- now it is I who is being the ass.Point5
- We should start using 24 hour clock.********
- That may have been the most uninteresting thing I've read in a long while.dopepope
- BTW FTR IMO GMT FTW GFYversion3
- dopepope... less reading, more PSB'ing plzPoint5
- hm, learn something new everydaygavinbraman