Moses was High
Out of context: Reply #138
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- gramme0
mikotondria2:
(1)
"'There was a man, who wasnt a man - he was God (despite this contradicting all the previous definitions of a dubiously angry God), who came to earth to spread a message of peace and love'—He was fully God, and fully man. He was perfect in spirit and deed, and could have called down all the heavenly armies in a nanosecond, had he chosen to do so; instead, he chose to take on flesh, to see things through our eyes by living as we do – with sickness, suffering, poverty, hunger and rejection.
—God had always been loving, but he had always been just. The Old Testament law was to take an eye for an eye, and to offer up burnt offerings as sacrifice for sin; but when Jesus became incarnate on earth, when he lived a human life and died a human death, burnt offerings were no longer necessary; he became the once-and-for-all sacrifice for sin. This is possible only because of who he was/is: God himself. The reason the death of only one can save the many is because GOD died, not just some schmoe.
(2)
...ok, fine with that so far, sounds good...."then - he was killed for generally pissing off TheMan, threatening the status quo of the authorities, and was nailed to a cross'...ok, good dramatic device - nice demonstration of sacrfice to a greater cause, Im on board...—He was killed because he claimed to be the Messiah. The Jews did not believe him. They were expecting someone to come in physical might and power, at the head of a heavenly army; a perfect sort of King David, if you will. This was based on a faulty reading of the metaphors delivered by their own prophets. They were directed, through Scripture, to execute anyone who made false claims to be the Messiah.
(3)
"Then, he actually didnt die, but disappeared up into the sky.....(er...ok)....and because he did this, everyone in history, and in the future will be saved. From being punished."He did ACTUALLY die, in fact he descended to hell while on the cross. Hell can best be described as the complete and utter absence of God's presence: thus Jesus nearly last words of "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?". However, as has been written, he was raised back to life, appeared to some 500 people, and later ascended to heaven. The 'ascending' part was a display for the sake of the disciples; heaven is not literally in the sky, it's another physical dimension entirely.
(4)
"If you take an abstract position about yourself, of believing 'in' him, then your mistakes will not damn you to an eternity in a fiery cave.". Come again ?—Simply believing that he is who he claimed to be is not enough – even the demons believe this, and shudder. One must come to terms with their own sinful nature and helpless estate. By helpless I mean that, being permanently imperfect, we can never be good enough to get into heaven. Thus, we need a stand-in, a person to vouch for us. No one but God has enough clout to do this. Further, God cannot be in the presence of sin; so he allowed his own Son, an equal part of the Trinity (father, son & spirit), to take the punishment for us, and to be an eternal intercessor on our behalf. In order for us to be considered innocent and thus able to enter heaven, we must acknowledge our need of salvation, and acknowledge that it comes only through Christ. The Bible is vague about the particulars of hell, such as what it will actually look like – but it is clear about the fact that it is a place of eternal suffering, not some temporary, finite punishment. Contrary to current Jewish belief, the Old Testament describes hell in this way as well – only they used the Hebrew term "sheol" instead of hell. Sheol basically means a pit of darkness and desolation, and is described as an eternal place (Job, a Jewish OT book, says "he who goes down to Sheol does not come up.")
(5)
Believe IN him ? What does that mean ? Believe in his presence as a supernatural entity ? Believe what he said was wise and correct ? Believe the death/not death thing ? I'm sorry Im confused about all that...It just doesnt make any sense - it doesnt add anything to the notion of their being a perfect, omnipotent, loving creator - why would he complicate things by having to do this ?"—Believing in Him means, as I stated above, that one must believe Christ is the son of God, that he came to save us, that he was capable of saving us from ourselves and from damnation, that he died, descended to hell, was raised to life, and ascended to heaven. Further, this means that we are adopted children of God. Adam and Eve were his children too, but they broke faith with him and severed the bonds if kinship until the time of Christ. Those in Old Testament times only had the promises to look forward to, and a faith that saved them.
—The reason God had to go through all this was because we had become corrupt and could not/cannot save ourselves. He was not content, however, to leave it at that: he was determined to redeem us to him. You might then ask why did he allow evil to occur in the first place. I have no answer for this besides the nebulous answer that it all somehow contributes to his glory. Being a perfect entity, he must be glorified, as glory is an intrinsic trait of perfection.
I am simply glad that he chose to love me who was and is not worthy of love from a perfect God.
- gramme, you are a far more patient man than i.ender79
- anwser 2: "...a faulty reading...".
That's according to your believes.neverblink