Nice (France) attack
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- applauseclause1
"Who's responsible for all that shit?"
it's very simple. responsible are the fuckers who drive the trucks, pull the triggers, hit the detonators, plan the attacks, radicalize people.
not responsible: the police, george bush, the west, the jews, islam, open borders.
- < agree to disagree.
While yes some absolute fucker got in a truck. Despicable fucker.
But the actions from all below (and more) lead up to that.mugwart - ... making that guy lead up to that action.mugwart
- While its easy to blame religion etc, the real monsters are around us the time.mugwart
- totally disagree.... geezuz christBennn
- please clapmoldero
- +1 applauseclauseterry_cloth
- < agree to disagree.
- applauseclause1
"But the actions from all below (and more) lead up to that."
in a sense they do. everything's connected. but that doesn't mean the responsibility lies with anybody else but the direct perpetrators.
if you think that a crusade from the middle ages, or political shit from WW1, WW2 or 2003, or a religious book can be assigned some part of the responsibility, you are buying into the same insanity that these mass murderers are stuck in.
- nobody's making them do it, except maybe radical ideologues. they're not drones or robots, these are people like you and me who choose to murderapplauseclause
- and blame the victims and blame the west, "they make us do it"applauseclause
- You're wrong.Morning_star
- There's no denying the influence of ideology on human civilization. Modernity fools us into thinking we're any different.IRNlun6
- blame blame for the blame game, and blame me for the blame blame, going insane got no blamekingsteven
- Al_dizzle-11
New reports say this idiot was just playing pokemon and not paying attention behind the wheel.
..
....
......too soon...?...downvote away.
- mugwart0
The guys mind set was made up of the damage we have done.
How many people died the other week?We have (we mainly being the British goverment - this goes back way further than Bush) have been melding and distablizing their countries and idiologies until they feel this is a holy cruzade. Never does that end well but desperation is desperation. They can't win any other way.
"we" are going unchecked we are bombing the shit out of these people. Yet we is not the people. Only a few under educated, souless racists wants these wars. Yet the people in power have been waging illigal wars creating hate for their own end -- what ever that might be. I'm a conspiracist here so I feel its more than wealth and power.
Its no excuse to get in a truck. I agree with you. My heart truly bleeds with these news.
Religion only fuels their cause - it doesn't start it.
- forgive my dyslexiamugwart
- "They can't win any other way."
so the asshole is a victim? acting in self-defense? fighting a war? you are following their justifications to the letter.applauseclause - good luck with thatapplauseclause
- Lenin called them "useful idiots"Cactus
- ^
^
Never have I sided with him.
If he was indeed what the news is saying then he might truly believed he was a victim/holy crusade.mugwart - You cant not look at the damage we are creating and not take some responsibility.
I'm on no side that creates violence.mugwart - I might blind our actions and heighten his actions.mugwart
- autoflavour1
Qbn is a design community.. But arguing that we can't discuss political or pressing international events here is just stupid. We are not design robots..
Although I hold little hope that these threads won't descend into the usual name calling and completely inappropriate bullshit..
- Asshole.detritus
- Yep.. A bit hairy stinky one with those hangy little bits of shit where I don't wipe properly..autoflavour
- :)detritus
- *used to be a design community. that is way down in the minority of what's discussed here now.CygnusZero4
- Cactus-1
- HijoDMaite3
Serious question: Do you guys think that if the west were to announce that any jihadist who commits terrorism like this, were to be buried in an unmarked grave on the outskirts of the city (not a islamic cementary) with his body remains warapped in pig skin and mouth stuffed with bacon. That it would deter them from becoming martyrs? I mean this is their belief not ours. According to their beliefs this would deny them their heavenly entrance and 72 virgins.
- noBluejam
- we should pull out of that entire area including Israel. sorry guys but, you're on your own.moldero
- What needs to be done is Islam needs to modernize or be banned (as it is already being done in some countries) but Islam is the problem.robotron3k
- ¯\_(ツ)_/¯HijoDMaite
- @robotron3k http://i.bittwiddler…Bluejam
- Angloa and China have banned Islam, they consider it a cult. Wonder who the next countries will be... (France??)robotron3k
- no france will be destroyed until merica comes and saves them for the 3rd time.yurimon
- https://petenelson.c…
... on serious note though, christianity is looking a bit 'old hat', lets modernise that as wellBluejam - No robotron, Islam is not the problem. People are the problem. There are millions of wonderful, happy, kind, peaceful muslims. People are the problem...set
- ..and if it wasn't Islam then they'd fine some other excuse.set
- im pretty sure woman having no rights and death to gays is not an issue with most of you.yurimon
- Stop trolling. All religions are antiquated bullshit, and many interpretations can be made, but ultimately people are the problem not a religious text.set
- the US took great pains to bury Bin Laden at sea so as not to incur further islamist wrath, nor allow any specific grave site for them to visit.sarahfailin
- well set seems that people cant get out of antiquated religious beliefs. is it the people or the doctrine? you can get out of it anytime.yurimon
- ..also, it was a lot easier to just hoy him out of the window.detritus
- moldero0
I'm not saying its justified AT ALL, but we need actions NOW that will not trigger negative reactions LATER, Give them what they've been asking for, Pull out of that fucking place, let them deal with their own shit, in their own land, their own fucking way.
- * braces for downvotesmoldero
- Right. Firstly that is utterly irresponsible and a death sentence to millions of non-muslims, apostates, homosexuals sunnis etc etc. or perhaps your saying...Morning_star
- ...that those folk not adhering to the Islamist mantra can come and live in your country?Morning_star
- Secondly, ISIS, Boko Haram etc do not want a state. They want Sharia Law throughout the world and death to anyone who contravenes those strict rules.Morning_star
- keep on keepin on then morning_star, and don't bitch when they retaliatemoldero
- morning is right its idealistically imperialistic. prob just a matter of time. your quote is good, just keep in mind that there are further complexities suchyurimon
- as finance, divide and conquer, study Machiavelli. still pretty relevant.yurimon
- The ONLY complexities are our 'Ve$ted Intere$t$' Yurimoldero
- aside form the vested interest im pretty usre there is more to the world plan in making this conflict and chaos is considered a healthy metamorphosis inyurimon
- transforming the worldyurimon
- "im pretty usre > sure"
yeah lets all assume, while keeping shit the way it is.moldero - 'don't bitch when they retaliate', who? The US, The Russians, The Sunnis, The Christians....every fucker is retaliating against something.Morning_star
- I'm pretty sure the current democrat administration is doing the best it can in keeping all their promises/.yurimon
- "Always Critique, Never Contribute."
~ Every Yurimon post ever.moldero - thanks for not contributing moldyyurimon
- stoplying0
Hard to believe that they just finished the Euro Cup in France where there were so many (arguably better) opportunities for an evil event like this. And they chose a soft national holiday on the french riviera. Fucking cowards either way.
- Pretty sure it's a major Sunni holiday too, July 14th.HijoDMaite
- I wouldn't presume there is a they yet - it's likely a lone maniac.fadein11
- ^ true.stoplying
- MakeBelieve0
Basic facts and response to post by HijoDMate
- You cannot be a martyr in Islam if you kill innocent people or kill yourself (suicide is forbidden in Islam). So no virgins or heaven - just Hell.
- Burying them in such a way will not only offend other like-minded terrorists but it's just simply desecration - which Islam forbids for Muslims and non-Muslims. (No mutilation and desecration allowed on anyone).
- Agree that they could possibly be buried in cemetery and not an Islamic one (no such thing really, other than making sure the body faces mecca). Burying in unmarked grave for Muslims isn't unusual. Some Saudi Kings are buried unmarked - so nobody venerates the grave/tomb.
Crux of the problem lies in the ROOT causes, not Islam as a faith or religion (vast majority Muslims abhor these so-called Jihadists). Many North Africans live in discriminatory ghettos in France. They could be driven by politics more than religion (as with most terrorists, they simply don't fit the reigious image).
According to this article in the Daily Mail, he beat his wife, took drugs, didn't pray, didn't go mosque - not very 'Muslim' at all by any standard.
http://dailym.ai/29AmJQRForeign policy in Iraq, Syria, Palestine/Israel are key motivations for many jihadists - all of which are major problems. Many terrorists and jailed jihadists consistently claim western intervention in Middle East as primary reason (not religion). I don't think these are even the reasons.
Islam is explicit (and no Quranic/religious justification exists): No killing of innocent people, non-combatants. No terrorism or mass killing with weaponry. No suicide is allowed. No forced conversion allowed. Not allowed to even kill animals, cut down trees or burn crops. Not allowed to destroy or dispell religious groups or other religions. Warfare in Islam is limited to defensive position. Vigilantism is not allowed. Desecration, beheading or mutilation is now allowed in war.
- *Not allowed in war - last lineMakeBelieve
- interpretation is left to the person who read those religious text.ApeRobot
- If you suicide to kill infidels , it's ok.
*according to scriptures interpretation.ApeRobot - The verses for fighting/war are not ambiguous, they are very clear. Again, no justifications exist.MakeBelieve
- Also all religious edicts are done by scholars and not meant to be done by layman in Islam. Most scholars denounce all the common misinterpretations.MakeBelieve
- Just because somebody calls themselves or claims it to be 'Islamic' - doesnt mean it is. KKK are a good example. So lets not call it that. It isn't religious.MakeBelieve
- There is NO scripture that justifies suicide by any interpretation (show me). To commit suicide is haram (forbidden), whether infidels or Muslims.MakeBelieve
- @MakeBelieve, you're saying Islam is a peaceful religion and only that Middle East people are easily duped (or bat shit crazy) into killing people?!?!?robotron3k
- Interfaith violence suffers horrific suicide attacks and makes up the majority these attacks. Just recently Iraq suffered it's worst to ISIS. 292 people killed.IRNlun6
- Suicide attacks are commonplace in Sunni and Shia conflict.IRNlun6
- MakeBelieve0
EXCLUSIVE - 'He drank alcohol, ate pork and took drugs. He was NOT a Muslim - he was a s***': Truck terrorist's cousin reveals he is an 'unlikely jihadist' who beat his wife and NEVER went to the mosque
Truck terrorist who murdered 84 people in a horrific drive along the Nice seafront drank alcohol, ate pork and took drugs - all banned by Islam
A cousin of his estranged wife said 'he was not a Muslim, he was a s***'
Revealed he didn't go to the mosque and didn't pray or observe Ramadan
The couple had separated after reports of domestic abuse two years ago
Detectives raided the family home in Nice and took his wife into protective custodyRead more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/…
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook- this makes it worse. he should have no justification to do what he didhotroddy
- Interesting. So probably not Salafist ideology at all like some are claiming.monospaced
- in other words, you can be a degenerate westerner, and one day the idealogical eating parasite thats been a sleep for decades wakes the fuck up. like a zombiehotroddy
- Same can be said for other attackers in the past. May be banned, but doesn't automatically disassociate someone from their faith or cultural connections.IRNlun6
- lol @ dailymail stance on bad muslim behaviour... all muslims are bad to the Daily Mail. Fuck that piece of shit rag.fadein11
- detritus0
Interesting to see the various media outlets gradually climbing down from the MUSLIM TERROR angle.
There's a small conspirational nugget in me that's wondering whether that might actually be the result of the government there reflexively acting to quell domestic reaction after their own Intelligence Chief recently warned that any more Acts of Terror mighty push the country towards the brink of some sort of civil war.
That would be a strange turn of events - actively covering something up that would ordinarily be in its own interest.
- I don't really believe this, for the record - it's just the shadow of a thought that crossed my mind.detritus
- right, France, England would be toast if their own people rebelled...robotron3k
- What do you mean?detritus
- Well Media has to dial down the rhetoric because they could make the Muslim population upset or targets of revenge, this causes other trouble.robotron3k
- I wonder if people believe it was just a coincidence this guy was of Arab decent, named Mohammad and decided to kill innocent people in terrorist act??robotron3k
- He was of North African, not Arabic descent, and his parents called him Mohammed before he decided whether he's religious or not.detritus
- Although it inspired terror in people, isn't necessarily a terrorist event as we've been programmed to understand. Muslims have every right to be cunts too.detritus
- ach't editing.detritus
- I agree with you robotron. Public panic could escalate this beyond organized terror.IRNlun6
- Ah, my apologies - I missed that youw ere asking that of a third party, not postulating the question yourself. I need to stop drinking.detritus
- ^I stand corrected, technically he most likely might be of mixed Arab decent.robotron3k
- detritus is talking sense.fadein11
- tell that to Faux Newsutopian
- HijoDMaite4
A French born, 2nd generation Algerian or Moroccan in his 20's grows up in France to Muslim parents who have not assimilated in to French culture. They barely know the language and haven't traveled much outside where they landed years ago. His family doesn't have much money, they grow up in a poor neighborhood, the kid has never felt like he is French, maybe he's bullied at school and feels the hatred towards his culture and skin color by other French. He is not interested in school or college, no one ever talked about it to him and he has no role models, maybe never had a girlfriend. The internet all of the sudden introduces him to people that tell him it's time that he start to hate the French back. That he will never be French. This continues over and over again and it finally starts to make sense in his head. He then sees glossy HD videos online of other Muslims around the world standing up to the oppressive Anglos. He starts to feel some pride for himself and begins to attend a mosque where meets the wrong people that begin the brainwashing. This guy is promised the 72 virgins I am sure.
Another French born 2nd generation Algerian is born to parents with more education that have assimilated better in to the French culture. They are also Muslim, his mother and father are involved in his life from an early age. They teach him the importance of love, compassion and respect for human life. Also how lucky he and his family is to be part of a great nation like France. They show him that he has the opportunities that many of his ancestors never had. He is serious about school, (His father is on top of his homework daily) maybe gets involved in sports. Father works very hard to provide for their well being and they grow up in a "nicer" part of the city. This 20 something has a good social life even though he is a Muslim and darker skin than most of his French piers. He looks ahead to college, takes advantage of social programs that allow him to get scholarships and grants. He goes to university, studies computer science or pre-med. He does very well and graduates with job offers at good companies in bigger cities. His family and friends are so proud of him, he meets a beautiful woman who is also a Muslim. They get married, attend mosque on occasion and reject the extremist narrative that some so called "Muslims" have adapted. He thinks about his children in the future and how it's going to be so important that he shield his family from that kid of mentality.
Do we see the difference here guys? Now come to the U.S. and swap out the 20 something year old kid with a Black or Mexican kid with Drugs and Gangs. It's the same story. It starts with the FAMILY!
Now, as far as the jihadists that are known drug addicts, abusers, and strip club patrons?
You got me.
Can we call that Evil?
- Where does "personal responsibility" come in?robotron3k
- robo, that trait has to be taught.HijoDMaite
- ^ true datrobotron3k
- nothing is black and white, these are complex issues. But to me this is the place to start. this is where the weight of the effort should be focused.HijoDMaite
- I used to say it's all about the mother, if you meet f-up people, sometimes you find they had bat-shit crazy mother-fathers are responsible too, but mostly momsrobotron3k
- my wife's a teacher...and now a guidance counselor...Hijo's pretty damn on point here. She says you can see tell from the amount of support/interest from theexador1
- parents, how a child is going to turn out most of the time. parents that take an interest in their kids schooling, meet the teachers, get them involved inexador1
- activities..those kids are a LOT more balanced and healthy....exador1
- makes me sad to think of the ones that don't get that kind of attention and love and support...and how they end up.exador1
- Do you want me to feel sorry for the guy in each case? That's what it seems like.Maaku
- ^ might be a start.
I agree with Hijo
It also goes further out into the community as well. Hate breads hate.mugwart
- since19790
What a disgusting piece of shit. I have no empathy for this motherfucker at all.
- Cactus0
Must get "the little people" to worked up about these things...
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/…
- instrmntl0
Forgive me for being ignorant, but why is France such a large target? Is it because of Charlie Hebdo, Middle East wars assistance, lack of security or something else?
- Lets Ask Yurimonmoldero
- banning the veil, hebdo, being a v.progressive society that questions religious doctrine... but I would say mainly Hebdo - not a fan of their approach to thefadein11
- problem.fadein11
- from what i can tell, it's a large muslim population that hasn't really integrated with french society....and french society that hasn't really accepted them.exador1
- not sure how you change that.exador1
- and that's europe in a nutshell...a LOT of countries that are fairly binary for most of their history....france is all french people...italy is all italian,etc.exador1
- ^ I would disagree there. but each to their own.fadein11
- read up on French-Algerian relationsHijoDMaite
- saying the large muslim population is to blame for the actions of a radicalised few makes you sound well a little Boris/Donald :)fadein11
- suddenly when that changes inside a generation or two...drastically... both sides are understandably upset. the French want france to stay the same..exador1
- newcomers end up not feeling welcome ....exador1
- France has had a large muslim population for decades... and the connection is irrelevant - how are they to blame for the actions of a few? Nah.fadein11
- for whatever reason, it's a bit different here in Canada... it's been a melting pot for so long, with SO many different cultures, it's almost like there'sexador1
- some kind of safety in that...we're just one big-ass stew...tons of different ingredients... you can be from anywhere, and no one really cares....exador1
- years ago, after some mid-east 'incident' i recall there was world wide tension...shit was getting real...(think it was something in palestinian territory)exador1
- what people dont realized is that moderate points of view in the lam is pretty extreme by western standards. actions by the few are acceptable by about 50-60%yurimon
- while the world held it's breath, and folks prepared for more carnage, i recall a local rabbi and a local imam here arranged to meet for a chat and talks aboutexador1
- peace and understanding and respect...
can't think of anything more Canadian than that...wouldn't have been surprised if they sent out for Tim Hortons :)exador1 - of public opinion. you cant apply radical or moderate terms in the way it pays out in the news. its complete different world.yurimon
- ^plays out in the news.yurimon
- La moitié des Français sont Arabes.Maaku
- Yuriturd™ is a trading name of Yuritroll Corp a subsidiary of Yurimong Holding Company.fadein11
- what exador1 said.since1979
- what HijoD said.sea_sea
- It's because they aren't the Sharia brand of islam. Gosh you people are stupid.Hayoth
- ^ that doesn't explain anything - no European nation is Sharia - this is about why France is being particularly targetted.fadein11
- fadein112
Some great discussion here and a lot of respect/sympathy being shown for the tragedy of recent events (including ALL of these events, not just those close to home)... A lot of good people here reading this. And alas a lot of shitheads. I must apologise that one of the threads I commented on degenerated into the oh so common QBN toddler squabble... All I can say is I didn't start it (again) and those who do feel the need to disrespect a tragedy like this by acting like total fuckwits (you know who you are) may question their actions... Rant over.
- chukkaphob2
This song by The The was released in 1989. Matt Johnson's lyrical genius was prophetic then and very telling today.
"Islam is rising, the Christians mobilizing
The world is on its elbows and knees
It's forgotten the message and worships the creeds"
(full lyrics below)The The - "Armageddon Days Are Here (again)"
Are you right here Jesus? Ah
Buddha? Yeah
Muhammad? Okay
But all right friends, lets goThey're 5 miles high as the crow flies
Leavin' vapor trails against a blood red sky
Movin' in from the east toward the west
With balaclava helmets over their heads, yesBut if you think that Jesus Christ is coming
Honey you've got another thing coming
If he ever finds out who's hijacked his name
He'll cut out his heart and turn in his grave
Islam is rising, the Christians mobilizing
The world is on its elbows and knees
It's forgotten the message and worships the creedsIt's war, she cried, it's war, she cried, this is war
Drop your possessions, all you simple folk
You will fight them on the beaches in your underclothes
You will thank the good Lord for raising the union jack
You'll watch the ships sail out of harbor
And the bodies come floating back
Watch the ships sail out of harbor
And the bodies come floating backBut if you think that Jesus Christ is coming
Honey you've got another thing coming
If he ever finds out who's hijacked his name
He'll cut out his heart and turn in his grave
Islam is rising, the Christians mobilizing
The world is on its elbows and knees
It's forgotten the message and worships the creedsIf the real Jesus Christ were to stand up today
He'd be gunned down cold by the C.I.A
Oh, the lights that now burn brightest behind stained glass
Will cast the darkest shadows upon the human heart
But God didn't build himself that throne
God doesn't live in Israel or Rome
God doesn't belong to the Yankee dollar
God doesn't plant the bombs for Hezbollah
God doesn't even go to church
And God won't send us down to Allah to burn
No, God will remind us what we already know
That the human race is about to reap what it's sownIslam is rising, the Christians mobilizing
The world is on its elbows and knees
It's forgotten the message and worships the creeds
The world is on its elbows and knees
It's forgotten the message and worships the creeds
The world is on its elbows and knees
It's forgotten the message and worships the creeds
The world is on its elbows and knees
It's forgotten the message and worships the creedsArmageddon days are here again
Armageddon days are here again
Armageddon days are here again
Armageddon days are hereSongwriters:
JOHNSON, MATT
