Frustrating contract issues
- Started
- Last post
- 27 Responses
- ohhhhhsnap
I drew out a contract and now I'm getting some retracts from my client on a freelance gig...
1) I included a clause of a percentage (that is pretty low) to pay, for a 10 day delay in depositing funds into my account that would be the 15th of every month. They want this taken out because "they don't know when the client will pay them." WHAT? this shouldn't matter? They should have $ to cover me in their account and deal with their own shit. I need to CYA.
They want to do DirectDeposit. I kind of feeling like I shouldn't do direct deposit right away with them. What do you all think about this? I will have on going work from them though.
2) I cannot put the work that I do in my portfolio (online)... sucks! what do YOU do when this happens? they aren't BIG NAMEs either. Should I push back/find out more?
3) They THINK that there will be no cancellations so they want this clause to be taken out. If they pull out, I'm assed out. I asked for 2wks pay if they do... they tell me that they won't.
Sounds like I'm setting myself up for disaster?
4) Are clients able to take out demands because another designer (not as good as myself ;) would take the proj. in this economic climate without drafting up something to protect themselves because they need to eat.
Super frustrating + fucked up.
- ideaist0
Tell them simply that "these are my terms; love it or leave it"...
...Never start with compromise; it's an easy way to spot unlovable clients!
; )
- Of course, if you're desperate for the $$$ then suck it up, change the contract, this time only and get paid...ideaist
- <locustsloth
- yeah, do it for money, but don't let the possibility of not getting paid happen (cancelation clauses, timing, etc).monospaced
- monospaced0
I think your concerns are 100% valid and you should be wary of all their requested revisions. Sounds like they don't have a strong grip on their billing or respect for the person creating their work.
The portfolio use thing is really annoying. That alone might make me not take a job. In this case it's good to explain to them that your portfolio site isn't infringing on their brand and that it's widely accepted to build and share a portfolio in order to acquire new work. Ask them what their specific concerns are here.
- I totally understand the portfolio thing from their perspective. Charge a premium for that.monNom
- i wish. this client SUCKS. i should take their $ and run.ohhhhhsnap
- doesnotexist0
a compromise only benefits the person who's wrong.
tell them to suck it, doesn't matter at all when they get paid. this is a contract between you and them, not you them and their client.
- monospaced0
the contract is there to protect you, and all of their requests put you at risk
- ideaist0
F*ck You; Pay Me! A Guide To Contracts For The Creative Professional
- hopefully it won't get to that point.ohhhhhsnap
- You never want it to, but some clients drain you & you only have so much energy to absorb & emit...ideaist
- zarkonite0
The no cancellation thing is unacceptable. You might as well work for free...
- vaxorcist0
hmm,,,, Tell them the contract is their-lawyer-friendly, but not creative-quality friendly.
Risky to say it, but any designer who KNOWS they won't be able to use the work in their portfolio won't take the work as seriously.
AND, portfolio is semi-standard industry practice as long as you're a freelancer, if it's a fulltime gig, with full benefits and a solid company, then that's when they can legitimately ask for this....
Years ago, I know a woman who was a GREAT designer, but almost all her work was hidden behind a corporate intranet firewall, she didn't have the rights to show much of it, when the company laid her department off, it sucked for the designers there....
- "Risky to say it, but any designer who KNOWS they won't be able to use the work in their portfolio won't take the work as seriously." !ohhhhhsnap
- i wonder if it's OK to show this work via PDF-- so not to kill creative quality because it won't be in your online bookohhhhhsnap
- vaxorcist0
I'll never forget what my father said about business negotiation:
They have to want you more than you want them.
and/or
If their name in front of your name looks better than your name in front of their name, then you've got work to do to change this situation.
- ukit20
I'd say you get out now...there is nothing worse than a client who doesn't pay, or worse yet drags their feet on paying forcing you to play bill collector. Which sounds like what they are setting you up for.
Take a principled stand and maybe they will give in, if not it's probably for the best...
- Yeah, if they're fucking around on payment terms, they'll soon be fucking you on actual payments.boobs
- ohhhhhsnap0
Thanks for all of your thoughts. So so good to get some perspective from my community instead of dealing with this stuff in my head. Just wanted to be sure that I wasn't being unreasonable.
monospaced, your thoughts are always appreciated. I'll have a phone chat with the director this eve and let them know that I'm won't be "taking away" work from them (which is obviously their fear)
The take it or leave it (non negotiation) -- I wish. But this job will enable me to travel a little and spread my wings... if they pay me on time. Especially since I'm on unemployment (recently canned earlier this year w/ no warning)... so this came at a good time.
- vaxorcist0
ok, assuming it's a gig that actually can help your bank account, and we all need that some times...
You might try to make it a "win win" situation if you do get a good vibe from the creatives....
1. Say something like : Client pays a miniumum of x per week, or somehow prevent the "all at once, 60 days from now" effect we freelancers often have to deal with. If you have to have any expense reports or timesheets validated, make sure they raise any issues within 48 hours, not 2 months later as an excuse not to pay you.
2. Direct Deposit may be okay, as they're possibly trying to protect themselves from you claiming that it took x days and/or their bank is playing games with float and bounced check charges, so this might be good for you, not bad.
3. Folio use.. ask if they've been burned in the past by designers who misrepresented who did what.... and/or if you can use it in your portfolio after x time has elapsed, as they may just not want to dilute the impact of a campaign and/or fear you have more google juice than they do.... if it's a military contractor or something like that, then ask if it's a secrecy issue,etc....
just keep them talking rather than get into ultimatums and it may work...
- crillix0
"They THINK that there will be no cancellations...." makes me laugh. Fuck you pay me.
- pillhead0
The clauses you have in the contract are all justifiable and are there to back yourself up, if you are having trouble at this point in the project I would just walk away now if you can afford to and save yourself some pain
- vaxorcist0
Are they a startup?
Are they small?
Are they run by refugees from a larger agency just getting stuff stated?
Are they a bunch of hard-nosed businesspeople who think designers are interchangeable?
- noneck0
3) They THINK that there will be no cancellations so they want this clause to be taken out. If they pull out, I'm assed out. I asked for 2wks pay if they do... they tell me that they won't.
If they want the clause taken out, it's because they think it's pretty likely that they want to cancel the project.
This sounds like a really shitty client. Walk away and be glad you dodged a bullet.
- boobs0
Yeah, there are some big red flags here. A lot can be dealt with by getting a 50% deposit to start. Then they can only rob you of half.
Oh, and frequently it's the friendly guys that rip you off. Because they seem nice, you fall for their bullshit. Nicest guy I ever dealt with burned me for the most dosh.
- k_temp0
Interesting subject. Will love to know the outcome of your chat oohhsnaps.
cheers and good luck.
dude you are always running some bigass problem, prior to this was the annual report in 2 weeks thing
- showpony0
2) I cannot put the work that I do in my portfolio (online)... sucks! what do YOU do when this happens? they aren't BIG NAMEs either. Should I push back/find out more?
^ i wouldn't consider this a deal breaker. i've seen this from time to time. if you can square away the other concerns, i wouldn't let this one hold you up, though it does suck.
- ohhhhhsnap0
balancing being a "nice guy", naturally of course
and conveying where I stand, strongly.It's a tightrope that's super fine.