green + '09
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- Point50
where you live plays a huge role. Here in Vegas it's a sprawled valley and public transportation sucks. My job is 20 miles from my house and public transport would take me 2 hours to get to my destination on a one-way trip. riding a bike to work is almost out of the question during the summer months when the temp is between 105°F - 115°F. Also, our water usage is out of control with very little rainfall and quick evaporation. I carpool with a co-worker when I can and attempt to make errand stops along the way to or from work instead of on the weekends.
- i think the type of person that moves to LA or Vegas isn't really too down with riding buses or trains to begin with.DrBombay
- armsbottomer0
i totally agree with meeklo and joeth. being environmentally conscious isn't something that can be measured and compared, and trying to do so just adds confusion. promoting education is crucial, so that people can choose how and where they contribute, rather than being told specifically what to do.
being more aware of the choices we make as consumers is definitely a huge step. no one can be infallible in this day and age, but making an effort to examine the detrimental effects some of our decisions is certainly progress.
"Waste = Food" is a pretty amazing documentary about sustainable design:
http://video.google.com/videopla…Not directly addressing eco-friendly behavior, this documentary disturbing yet fascinating look at the history of mass consumption and how its been used to control and manipulate societies:
"Century of the Self"
http://video.google.com/videopla…Also "Our Daily Bread" is quite good (and shocking), examining modern industrialized food production. No voice overs/interviews, but very effective.
http://www.ourdailybread.at/jart…
- mightcould0
Blackle saves energy because the screen is predominantly black. "Image displayed is primarily a function of the user's color settings and desktop graphics, as well as the color and size of open application windows; a given monitor requires more power to display a white (or light) screen than a black (or dark) screen." Roberson et al, 2002
- I don't know about power, but I'm one of the few that believes a dark background on a site is easier on the eyesMeeklo
- very interestingarmsbottomer
- joeth0
Here are some more good ideas...
http://www.50waystohelp.com/
- joeth0
NOBODY is perfectly green. Vegetarianism works for some. Biking and public transportation works for others. And so on...
The goal should be to educate ourselves and each other, not to insult people for their choices.
- Meeklo0
It makes obvious and perfect sense, in and of itself, meeklo, as well you know...
sorry, I don't know. and I only agree with what you said about conditions being applied to both sides.
But just the fact that you are ignoring any other possible rights or wrong committed by your "meat eater" and your "vegetarian" subjects is a huge mistake in my opinion.
There are thousands of possible scenarios that can have both characters that can contradict (and affirm) that statement.
Is almost like if you were saying, that designers that use the color blue are more likely to know more about music than designers that don't use the color blue.
- Yeh, it's all good, I didnt mean to come across as such a prick, just looking for a rousing argument, thats all :)mikotondria3
- is all good, its good discussion right? thought provoking at least :)Meeklo
- and how often we find that hereMeeklo
- DrBombay0
I'm not stopping eating meat. Not going to do it. So I guess I am a bad guy.
- no, not really. you're alright.Point5
- perfectly fine with me.mikotondria3
- mikotondria30
It makes obvious and perfect sense, in and of itself, meeklo, as well you know...
All of the conditions that you've applied to the argument must of course, apply equally to both sides, in that.....(ok, lets make it real simple..)Consumption of an average western meat diet produces more net CO2 than the difference in the average output of CO2 between a hummer and a prius.
The production of meat produces vast quantities of CO2, so cutting this from your diet reduces the amount of CO2 for which you are responsible by a large amount. Period.
It does not make you a better person.
What would make you a better person is not being disingenuous about your understanding of what is evidently a disarming fact for you.
If you honestly think that your carbon footprint is a moral issue for you, then I can understand how that might be at odds with your reasons for eating meat, especially given your attitudes to the concepts of vegatarianism and veganisam, in that you are confusing the activties of both with the political movements of the same names.
Not eating meat doesnt really 'make' you a 'vegetarian', anymore than not eating plastic makes you a 'non-plasticarian', it's a labelling trick - there are an infinite amount of things we don't do, yet we aren't labelled by them..I totally agree with you about the meatless products travelling across the country, though - one thing that really irks me is travelling along any highway you follow trucks full of products whilst on the opposite side of the freeway there are similar trucks carrying exactly the same stuff, going the other way - until we have a political motivation for reducing waste and pollution (let alone money), then little will change in this regard.
You want to think you're making a difference to the world by reducing your carbon footprint ? Stop eating meat. You don't have to call yourself a vegetarian, you can still go out and hunt, dress, cure and cook a deer if you like. You don't have to put string in your hair, or start cooking tofu, or preaching to your friends about the poor poor animals, you just have to make another choice about what you buy and eat, it's really simple.- you said we shouldn't worry about c02 though, right?DrBombay
- I think so...did I say that ?
Yeh, yeh that's right.mikotondria3
- joeth0
People should also be aware of which kinds of meats have a bigger impact. For example, beef typically has way more environmental impact than chicken.
A vegetarian telling a meat-eater to go veg almost never works. But if you explain which ones are worse, you will probably get some people to cut down on beef consumption, which would have more of an impact overall.
- benfal990
recycling : check
no car : check
bike 6 months/year : check
public transport. 6 months/year : check
- Meeklo0
A vegetarian driving a hummer produces less CO2 than a meat-eater driving a prius...
Sorry, but makes no sense to state something like that.
What if the hummer owner just got his 3rd brand new hummer 2 weeks ago, and got another one for his meat eating wife, and the prius owner lives in a house of 4 yet they all share the same car and ride bikes since 1997?Statements like that are what confuse people.
What about the vegetarians that eat out of season vegetables forcing imports like bananas from ecuador and apples from japan to their home in east coast usa? Or all the meatless products that you buy at the supermarket and have travelled on trucks from the otherside of the country just to get to your local store?
What if the meat eater is an indigenous in vietnam, that hunts and kills its pray to feed a family of 6?
Lets not add confusion, being vegetarian does not necessarily make me better than a person eating meat, that is what the vegan community like to believe, and most of them are worse than religious people, forcing their beliefs and practices on others. That right there I consider a pollution problem.
- b_electro0
Vegetarian, 14+ years. I guess that means I can drive a Hummer ;-)
- mikotondria30
A vegetarian driving a hummer produces less CO2 than a meat-eater driving a prius...
I neither drive, nor eat meat, nor smoke, so I really reallly get pissed off when I'm nearly forced to buy those fucking mercury-containing fluorescent lightbulbs which claim to last 5 years, yet 3 have blown here in about 2 weeks, and if you break them then you're fucked as you have mercury vapour and droplets in your kids bedroom.
Fuck that,Fuck anthropomorphic C02 modulated climate change, too - honestly I can't believe that is still the story of the day when the non-evidence is so widely available and so quick to obtain.
Pollution and disproportionate distribution of clean water, enough food and healthcare is the ONLY 'greenness' we have an obligation to address.
Oil will not 'run out', it is not immoral to produce vast quantities of CO2 to support your lifestyle, as long as that lifestyle includes a concious effort to stop the above injustices.
Living a good life is not as simple as 'being green' according to the latest trends, and I am astounded at the amount of thinking that people allow other people to do for them - get edumacated, people and wake up.
- kalkal0
We have to recycle in our area, the rubbish only gets taken every 2 weeks, the recyclable stuff gets taken every other 2 weeks... That shit can mount up if you don't recycle something.
- Meeklo0
well, the main problem is caused by "consumism" but commercials don't tell you that, they say. This laptop is green, BUY IT NOW.
oh by the way the new iPhone is out, get rid of the other one and buy this one, is faster.
- Meeklo0
well, the main problem is caused by "consumism" but commercials don't tell you that, they say. This laptop is green, BUY IT NOW.
oh by the way the new iPhone is out, get rid of the other one and buy this one, is faster.
- Gifto0
I think this is a really subjective thing - I know people who claim to be green (usual recycling etc) yet holiday abroad lots, have more than one car and have weekend activities than involve lots of driving about...
I recycle a lot of stuff and walk most places within reason but wouldn't really consider myself green....
- likewise. being green is as impossible as being perfect. but every effort counts
Meeklo
- likewise. being green is as impossible as being perfect. but every effort counts
- Meeklo0
but then again, being green is now a "type of consumer" and its being exploited to the full extent.
From the "recyclable bags" they sell you at whole foods, to the new "green macs" to the example calcium mentioned before about people not waiting for bulbs to die before replacing it.
- SigDesign0
Story of stuff is great... We're defined by what we consume right now, and that's pretty sad... I mean, the idea that we are judged by our credit scores for jobs... i don't like it.
We got rid of a car, and I take mass transit...will soon bike, hopefully. And, recycling, using less electricity... using less... we don't need as much money, food, devices, etc, as advertising would want us to believe.