Ripping/Copying
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- Corvo0
^^ there's an interesting side to OSFA's situation. Why is it not ok for the client to own the design - and let you or another designer develop it later on, as the business takes new shapes? After all, a design is made for a particular client and it is part of his assets. But of course, everybody would hate that - dropping off of a gig and having another team working on your stuff - but (imagine) the other team is respectful of your job and tries to improve it? I think then we would be on what Anders would call a "positive rip-off?". Thing is ideas are dear and are the designer's asset, so no one evens considers with pleasure having another person profiting from your work - but that is contraditory to the aim and nature of design itself. A little bit contraditory at least.
- why would the client own any rights if they never pay for them???OSFA
- hey sorry - I was talking about done & paid for work - not ideas that they steal from comps. that is a felony.
Corvo - I have misread your situation.Corvo
- no prob, and yes, they pretty much stole our comps. They never paid for them and used them three months later.OSFA
- OSFA0
Funny that there is a thread about this since I just realized an ex client decided to take our design and give it to his 'web guy' to copy and publish.
Do you guys have samples of good cease and desists letters for design? Particularly web design? We presented the option to the client and advised them that if they didn't proceed with us they could not use any of the elements on their new site. What should be my first step?
- rainman0
I guess my only qualm with Anders opening statement/question is the word "rip-off (or in this case "ripped off"). The term is such a negative term that you only assume that it's meant in a negative way.
- of course it's negative, that's what I'm trying to say.Anders
- But you're trying to pull a positive from a negative... why? Why give any credit to the designers that pulled off these creative plagiarism. Makes no sense. I wouldn't give them any creditrainman
- "creative plagiarisms"... why condone something like thisrainman
- Creative CommonsAnders
- Anders0
In music there is a phenomenon like Mashup
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mas…)
For more on this, download the excellent documentary Good Copy Bad Copy
http://creativecommons.org/weblo…I don't think it has to do especially with styles/trends, other than the creative copying of another work might become a style for others. In this way, you are creating something new for the lazy to rip-off, thus making in entirely different from the original source.
It's an interesting topic, if you dive a little deeper than the usual 'rip-off or accident'. In the most original cases, where two works has so much in common, it's mostly a matter of chance and the work is often so based on an idea, that you can trace it back to its source of inspirations.
The incident of finding works of art that resembles my own in an almost frightening way, is in a way very uplifting; that there is something bigger than the ego. An idea that somehow needs to be realised. I have this feeling sometimes when I see other peoples art or design; that I like it very much, but somehow have an urge to add something – to make it different, new, personal..http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/App…)
The idea of appropriation has long been used in art, but mostly it doesn't reveal new ways of seeing in design. Mostly it is seen as a rip-off or laziness. I'd love to see designers sample more.I watched a TED talk with J.J. Abrams, creator of Lost TV series
http://www.ted.com/index.php/tal…
where he wonders why filmmakers always rip off the monster and not the characters or stories in those movies. I think Jaws is his example.Why not sample Build, Sagmeister, Paul Rand, whoever.. but in a new way? There is a chance, a small one perhaps, that it'll reveal new directions, new ideas that has nothing to do with style. Not plagiarism, but inspiration/association.
The cliché Picasso quote 'Good artists copy. Great artists steal'
has to do with the leaving the monster behind.Maybe I'm just rambling.
- Corvo0
^ true. then a distinction must be made between what is inspiration (which sometimes touches the rip-off frontier) and what is an exact copy of design elements put together in the exactly same place. This is not a new question either - but when Anders asks for good examples of a rip-off you're bound to think of similarities (improvements?) rather than exact rips (as in code, elements, events, etc), and then - just then - your ground starts to get muddier, and you realise that graphical work depends much upon copy+paste and improvement.
- rainman0
Back when I worked for a local B2B startup I designed their website. After about 4 months of it being live my boss calls me into his office and asks me, "Did you really design our site?" I said um... yeah... why? He then proceeded to type in a URL. When the site loaded I saw that exact same site... only difference was this company had taken out our company name and inserted theirs. Same content, same design. That's what I call Plagiarism.
Plagiarism happens all the time... and, for the most part, it's fairly acceptable. It's just these instances where it's fairly obvious that the person on the other end is being lazy or uncreative where I find it distasteful.
- killerqueen0
I said shut up.
- Corvo0
That's true. But on the other hand there's also the possibility that two persons in opposite sides of the world, with no communication whatsoever between them, can achieve the same idea. It's perfectly possible (or even common): the thing is that their potential technological difference will never confront them, and the simpler process is lost because, whereas the same widespread use of technology tends to induce repetitions of the same idea, but not bring any simplification to it.
- rainman0
IMITATION IS THE SINCEREST FORM OF FLATTERY - "Usually said ironically when someone tries to gain attention by copying someone else's original ideas.
Coined by Charles Caleb Colton
- Corvo0
There is also the problem of strong similitude in so-called styles and trends. Are those legitimate originals or are they just good rip-offs? Is this part of your question, Anders?
- Corvo0
In a way, the best example of a rip-off done creatively is design itself. Design is not an original craft - it's a derivation of other crafts, I think.
- rainman0
um... why acknowledge/glorify plagiarism?? good, bad... it's all wrong.
- killerqueen0
Shut up.
- http://communitieson…sikma
- Even the best trolls get ripped.Corvo
- incidentally, that gnome book is great.monNom
- that's was a bad example of how to rip-off a good troll.Corvo
- seriously - what a fucking trollsikma
- It's not a troll, imo. Trolls have objectives. This just an ill-educated person.Corvo
- It's pretty harmless.Corvo
- fair enoughsikma
- cockzshed
- Anders
Designers gets their designs ripped off all the time, but isn't there examples where it's done with creativity. Show us some examples. Good and bad.